Muay Thai - Mark Whitaker

[00:00:00] My name is Mark Whitaker, I'm a financial advisor and I run retirement advice and my Unexpected Hobby is Muay Thai.

[00:00:08] Welcome to Unexpected Hobbies of Financial Advisors, the podcast where we interview fellow financial advisors about their pursuits and pastimes beyond their professional persona, some of which may be surprising to their colleagues and clients.

[00:00:22] We're interested in what makes them tick and how their unexpected hobbies might or might not relate to their everyday lives.

[00:00:29] Here's our discussion with this week's guest.

[00:00:36] Welcome to the Unexpected Hobbies of Financial Advisors podcast.

[00:00:39] I'm Brian Wright with Fiduciary CFO alongside my co-host and fellow financial advisor, smiling from ear to ear, Joshua Walker.

[00:00:48] Hi Joshua, it's good to be here today Brian.

[00:00:50] I am glad you are here and I am glad our guest is here because we have a good one.

[00:00:55] Would you agree?

[00:00:57] Remains to be seen.

[00:00:58] Yes, but we've so far so good. We've had good guests.

[00:01:01] The burden's on Mark.

[00:01:02] That's true. Yeah, that we're just here in front of pinball machines.

[00:01:05] So he's he's the monkey that has to dance entertain us right?

[00:01:09] Oh dear.

[00:01:10] Oh my, here we go.

[00:01:12] Mark, thank you for joining us.

[00:01:14] We're going to talk about Muay Thai.

[00:01:16] Yeah, cool. This will be fun.

[00:01:19] Yeah.

[00:01:19] So you like to punch things, huh?

[00:01:23] Yeah.

[00:01:23] Where do you want to?

[00:01:24] I do actually.

[00:01:26] I do actually like.

[00:01:28] Yeah, I do actually like punching things.

[00:01:31] Mostly people's faces.

[00:01:33] Oh dear.

[00:01:34] That's this is now.

[00:01:35] This is how you start a podcast.

[00:01:37] That's going to be our intro.

[00:01:39] Oh man.

[00:01:40] For the sake of education, what is Muay Thai and how did you get into it?

[00:01:43] And how long has it been?

[00:01:45] Yeah, I don't know that I'm necessarily the.

[00:01:46] Well, no, I'm not the authority on what Muay Thai is or not.

[00:01:50] But here's my understanding.

[00:01:51] So it's a it's a formal martial arts from Thailand.

[00:01:55] And it's a combat sport.

[00:01:56] It's yeah, it's it's more of a stand up striking style martial art.

[00:02:02] So punching, kicking, other things that I would say are kind of unique to Muay Thai versus like American style kickboxing is the use of elbows and knees.

[00:02:17] Yeah.

[00:02:18] So elbows and knees.

[00:02:19] So you can do a fair amount of damage or take a fair amount of damage in the course of your hobby.

[00:02:25] Oh, yeah.

[00:02:26] Oh, yeah.

[00:02:26] Yeah.

[00:02:27] But this is it.

[00:02:28] You have to stay on your feet or can you go to the ground?

[00:02:31] You can't go to the ground.

[00:02:32] Yeah. So yeah.

[00:02:33] So Muay Thai, you know, you're you're yeah, you're you're on your feet.

[00:02:36] There's like a there's throws and there's like you can like trip and sweep and and that sort of thing.

[00:02:41] But if you're watching like a traditional Muay Thai fight, if somebody goes to the ground, like if, you know, somebody like, you know, kick somebody in the head and they fall down, but they get right back up or whatever the raffle like kind of like, OK, now go again.

[00:02:54] Um, but then if you know, if you're familiar with like, you know, mixed martial arts, UFC stuff, a lot of the stand up striking technique is is Muay Thai technique.

[00:03:05] Um, so at the gym that I go to, I mostly enjoy doing Muay Thai.

[00:03:09] But then depending on who I'm working out with or whatever, I'll also do, uh, kind of like, you know, all around mixed martial arts.

[00:03:19] So we'll do striking and then, you know, do take downs and do groundwork as well.

[00:03:24] So.

[00:03:24] But your roots are in Muay Thai and how far.

[00:03:27] Yeah.

[00:03:27] Yeah.

[00:03:28] Yeah.

[00:03:29] So it's funny.

[00:03:30] I started doing, um, playground.

[00:03:33] This was like, what was that?

[00:03:34] On the playground?

[00:03:35] Yeah.

[00:03:36] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not even close.

[00:03:39] Um, although, you know, being a, being like a, a little freckled redhead kid, you kinda, you know, getting like, you know, fights in school or whatever.

[00:03:47] But, um, no, it's interesting.

[00:03:49] So I, I started doing Muay Thai just like three years ago and it really started, uh, because I had gained like 50 pounds and I was like, dude, I hate to do some, I need to do some cardio.

[00:04:01] So I used to be in the army and I was in the army.

[00:04:04] I, you know, had like, you know, physical fitness requirements and it was pretty easy for me to stay in shape or whatever.

[00:04:11] And so after a few years of being out of the army, you know, my, uh, my health was like definitely going down.

[00:04:18] And so I thought, all right, I need to do something.

[00:04:20] And when I was in high school, I did boxing for a little while and I really enjoyed it.

[00:04:24] So honestly, I was just looking for, looking for a fighting gym and, and, uh, it just so lined up with Muay Thai cause that was the gym that, uh, that was around where I lived.

[00:04:35] And even though it was an MMA gym that had like, you know, they do jujitsu and boxing and Muay Thai and, and then like everything together.

[00:04:44] The Muay Thai class is like lined up best with my schedule.

[00:04:46] So I'm like, sweet, I guess I'm doing Muay Thai.

[00:04:48] I, and so yeah, that's how it started.

[00:04:50] So when you signed up for that class, who were the other sort of people that were in there?

[00:04:54] Was it a bunch of other ex-servicemen that had put on a COVID 50 or is it a broad range?

[00:04:58] No, it's funny.

[00:04:59] Cause yeah, it was kind of a COVID thing of like, I needed, I needed some exercise, but, um, dude, I was totally, uh, I wasn't even sure what to expect, but it was kind of, kind of interesting.

[00:05:08] So the class, um, that I started going to early in the morning.

[00:05:13] Um, I don't know.

[00:05:14] I, I don't know that I knew what to expect, but I was definitely surprised who were, who were there.

[00:05:19] So you had kind of this like broad, um, like, uh, you know, group of people.

[00:05:25] So you had like, um, a lot of kind of like middle-aged professionals.

[00:05:29] Um, you have where I live, there's a couple of universities.

[00:05:32] So depending on the time of year you have, you know, college students.

[00:05:37] Um, and then, uh, for a, it doesn't seem so much like right now, but a lot of, uh, police officers, um, you know, doing their workouts and that sort of thing there.

[00:05:48] Um, and so you have kind of a, um, kind of a broad group depending on the class.

[00:05:53] Uh, some of the other classes, like the night class, if I go in, yeah.

[00:05:57] And the night time doesn't really work with my schedule, but there's a lot more, um, uh, I would say like more serious guys that are like training to, to fight and stuff like that.

[00:06:07] So, um, and kind of a younger crowd, but anyway, where I go, I mean, there's like, like people in their sixties all the way to like, you know, 20 year olds.

[00:06:16] So kind of a broad group.

[00:06:18] And have you stuck with that morning class or have you mixed it up all during times of day and weekends?

[00:06:22] Yeah, yeah, no, definitely.

[00:06:23] So I've, um, yeah, almost completely consistently just going in the morning, just cause it's worked with my schedule.

[00:06:30] And like when I started it, it wasn't like this, oh, I want to, I mean, whatever.

[00:06:33] I'm like, um, you know, in my thirties at this point and have my career.

[00:06:38] So I'm like, okay, this isn't like a career switch.

[00:06:39] I'm going to start, you know, fighting or whatever.

[00:06:41] Um, so I started really just out of, you know, the motivation was just to get in better shape.

[00:06:47] And so the morning just worked.

[00:06:49] And so that's kind of what I've kept, kept doing.

[00:06:51] So.

[00:06:52] And as a exercise discipline, did it help you get in shape or is it a completely different form of a workout that's building strength rather than burning off?

[00:07:03] Well, Joshua, you tell me if it helped me get in shape.

[00:07:07] No, he's.

[00:07:08] Say that to my face.

[00:07:09] No, for real.

[00:07:10] No, we don't know.

[00:07:11] No, for you're like, you're like, well, um, it worked maybe.

[00:07:17] I don't know.

[00:07:18] Yeah.

[00:07:19] Yeah.

[00:07:19] Cool.

[00:07:19] So no, yeah, it's helped.

[00:07:21] It's helped a ton.

[00:07:23] Um, like, uh, I've always really enjoyed weightlifting, but man, like trying to get trend, like cardiovascularly getting better shape was like, uh, man, I just hate running.

[00:07:34] Like when I was in the army, it was like, cool.

[00:07:36] I, you know, you run because that's what you do.

[00:07:38] And, uh, so yeah, fighting is like a great way to, uh, yeah.

[00:07:45] I'm proved like use your cardiovascular, uh, health or whatever.

[00:07:49] Um, and, uh, yeah.

[00:07:52] So yeah, it's been awesome.

[00:07:54] You're working in a community can help you do a lot of things you don't care for, you know, running with a 250 of your closest buddies.

[00:08:01] Has it been the same way in the gym that you've got the same core set of friends that were in that class and you've moved forward together as a cohort or their regulars that you've.

[00:08:09] Oh yeah.

[00:08:10] Hang out with and you all know your names and weak spots.

[00:08:13] Oh yeah, for sure.

[00:08:14] So, um, and that's one of the, I'd say probably the, I don't know, one of the things that I've kind of found that I've like, I totally wasn't expecting, um, when I started, but there's like, there's a really great community aspect.

[00:08:26] And I've got a couple of buddies, um, that, uh, uh, yeah, I work out with, um, like, like there's like an ab of flow.

[00:08:35] There's like big, like people that come in and out or like, like, Hey, we haven't seen, you know, uh, you know, we haven't seen somebody for, you know, a year or whatever.

[00:08:42] And they come back in.

[00:08:43] But, um, uh, anyway, there's a, there's a lady that I've worked out with for a long time, Bonnie.

[00:08:48] This is funny.

[00:08:48] She's, she's a little bit older.

[00:08:50] And it was like, all of a sudden you look around and like, how are we seeing Bonnie for a couple of, for, for a little while.

[00:08:54] And then she showed up the other morning and she's like, Oh yeah, I got foot surgery.

[00:08:57] And so I've been gone for nine months or whatever.

[00:09:00] But, um, yeah, there's a, there's a good group of regular guys.

[00:09:03] And then the coaches, um, have been really consistent, same people.

[00:09:07] So yeah, it's been really cool.

[00:09:09] So is this the type of martial art that has like a belt system where you progress as your skills improve?

[00:09:15] Or is this going to just learn, learn, learn to punch better?

[00:09:20] Yeah.

[00:09:21] Yeah.

[00:09:22] Yeah.

[00:09:22] So, so it can for sure.

[00:09:24] In fact, it's funny when I started the gym, they were, um, it's, it's interesting.

[00:09:28] Like the management of the gym that I go to has changed a couple of times over this last three years, but they've kept the same like coaches, right?

[00:09:36] Whatever.

[00:09:36] And it's like at the end of the day, it's like, ah, the coaches, the ones who were actually running the classes or, you know, who really make the gym, you know?

[00:09:41] But, um, when I first started, they were really big into kind of like, you know, promoting a belt system.

[00:09:46] Um, so within Muay Thai, there is that and the, uh, the, um, the style of Muay Thai that they promote, or they kind of do at our gym is called, uh, it's called bang Muay Thai.

[00:09:58] And, uh, it's, uh, there's a, there's a fighter, you know, from like the early two thousands and nineties, uh, Dutch kickboxer, uh, boss root.

[00:10:07] And you can look them up online, but anyway, it's kind of a, a school of Muay Thai that he promotes and they have kind of like a belt system, but they don't really push that anymore.

[00:10:15] Although.

[00:10:16] You know, that's still like kind of a style of Muay Thai that they, that they push.

[00:10:20] So how many styles are there?

[00:10:22] I have no idea, man.

[00:10:25] Oh yeah.

[00:10:25] I'm not totally sure, but, uh, so there's like, I mean, kind of like broadly there's, uh, like within kickboxing, like what I know of, like you have American, like Muay Thai and kickboxing are very similar, but like, if you're, if you're competing, like within those specific sports, they do technically have different rules.

[00:10:41] But they're really kind of like, I don't know.

[00:10:43] They're very similar to each other, but you have American style kickboxing and you have Dutch kickboxing and then Muay Thai.

[00:10:49] So.

[00:10:50] And how did Muay Thai become popularized?

[00:10:52] I mean, to the extent that it is popularized in the United States.

[00:10:55] Why?

[00:10:55] Somebody like me have heard of it.

[00:10:56] And when did that happen?

[00:10:57] Yeah, I think, well, I think, uh, most people would be familiar with it from just like watching UFC.

[00:11:02] So within, uh, within mixed martial arts, the, I would say the primary kind of standup fighting style, um, you know, before guys go to the ground and they're, you know, they're doing like, uh, you know, wrestling or jujitsu stuff.

[00:11:16] Um, or like ground and pound where you take somebody down and you're dropping elbows or, you know, using, you know, striking from the ground or whatever.

[00:11:23] Uh, most of the standup fighting is, is, uh, I would say kind of like that.

[00:11:27] The core fighting is art is Muay Thai technique, you know, kicking, punching, throwing elbows, um, using knees.

[00:11:36] So.

[00:11:37] Is there a characteristic body type that lends itself to Muay Thai lanky?

[00:11:42] Um.

[00:11:43] Reach.

[00:11:45] No, it's, it's actually interesting.

[00:11:46] So my, uh, um, I would say, I don't know, probably like that stereotypical, like my, uh,

[00:11:53] Muay Thai fighter would be, um, if you think of, uh, Penn, the UFC, the heavyweight champion right now, John Jones, he's like really long and that's kind of like, I don't know.

[00:12:02] Yeah.

[00:12:03] Like 12, 14 years.

[00:12:04] Yeah.

[00:12:05] I think UFC 309, he like just defended his title and won again.

[00:12:09] So, um, yeah, he's, well, he started when he was like in his twenties.

[00:12:12] So, you know, um, you know, fighting a fighting career, um, you know, guys that do it professionally, you maybe have like, like a pretty narrow window where you can like really fight at your,

[00:12:23] you know, your peak performance.

[00:12:25] And so for most guys that like really ends maybe early to mid thirties, you know, you go much past that.

[00:12:30] It's like, there's only very few that can, but since he started when he was like 20, it's like, yeah, he's been around forever.

[00:12:36] And you're like, what the heck?

[00:12:37] He's still, you know, doing his thing.

[00:12:39] He's one of the senior citizens of the sport now.

[00:12:41] Yeah.

[00:12:42] But he's still, you know, he's still dominating, but, but anyways, but about body types, um, there's a, uh, there's a Muay Thai fighter, uh, raw Tang.

[00:12:50] If you look him up and he's, I really, I really like watching him cause he's kind of this, um, uh, short dude.

[00:12:58] He's, you know, he's, he's, uh, he's from Thailand, really short and muscular.

[00:13:02] And he's just, uh, where you would think of kind of like this, you know, this Muay Thai striker, who's like really long reach with arms and legs.

[00:13:09] He's just like, he's just a tank and he's a little bit of a character.

[00:13:12] So he'll come out, you know, like his, like he's walking out to the ring.

[00:13:16] He's like punched himself in the face and he's kind of just got this, like, he'll just tank up to people.

[00:13:20] Just get re get in really close.

[00:13:22] Just eat a bunch of, you know, eat a bunch of strikes from people and then just, and then just maul them from, from inside close.

[00:13:28] So I don't know that there's like necessarily like an ideal body shape.

[00:13:31] You see guys that do well.

[00:13:33] Um, but I would say, I mean, like, honestly, I would say for myself and I'm sparring guys, it is, uh, all else being equal.

[00:13:43] It's easiest.

[00:13:44] It's easier to fight somebody who is, uh, shorter and has a, has a shorter reach than I do.

[00:13:50] Yeah.

[00:13:50] Um, anyway, so how tall are you?

[00:13:53] Um, like five, 10.

[00:13:55] So kind of average guy, but, um, yeah.

[00:13:59] So, so, and it's, uh, no, go ahead.

[00:14:01] I say in the mixed martial arts space is, is Muay Thai the, is that the gateway drug to the mixed martial arts?

[00:14:08] Is that the first thing that people do?

[00:14:09] Or is this, or like your group is, is that their first or is this like, oh, this was a boxer.

[00:14:14] Now they're coming over and doing, and kind of doing Muay Thai or, or do this.

[00:14:17] I don't know.

[00:14:17] I don't know.

[00:14:18] But like, um, you know, I don't know about necessarily that.

[00:14:22] Um, but I would say, uh, I don't know, probably the gateway to Muay Thai is, is UFC like within

[00:14:28] in the United States, because you know, people watch UFC and like, oh, that's so cool.

[00:14:31] And then you go to a, you go to a mixed martial arts gym and it's super common at any mixed

[00:14:36] martial arts gym.

[00:14:37] They'll have classes in Jiu Jitsu.

[00:14:39] Uh, so, you know, like, yeah, like a, you have like classes teaching you like groundwork

[00:14:43] and then you'll have classes in like standup striking fighting techniques.

[00:14:47] So boxing and Muay Thai or kickboxing, something like that.

[00:14:51] And so usually somebody, I would say, I don't know, like an American, um, would kind of stumble

[00:14:57] into Muay Thai, you know, kind of through UFC cause that's what's now popular now.

[00:15:01] So I still think of Joe Rogan as the guy from UFC, not the integral player in our election

[00:15:07] cycle, but oh yeah, he, yeah, no for sure.

[00:15:10] Yeah.

[00:15:11] Which he, uh, which he, yeah, totally, you know, still is.

[00:15:14] So, um, and kind of interesting, you know, he, he, his, his, uh, kind of amateur fighting

[00:15:19] career was, it was actually in Taekwondo.

[00:15:22] And so, um, which is like a different kind of striking, uh, you know, martial arts discipline,

[00:15:28] which is kind of, it's some of the technique is used, um, in mixed martial arts today, but,

[00:15:34] but definitely like Muay Thai would be the kind of the primary discipline.

[00:15:38] So, so you had the boxing background.

[00:15:39] So that made sense then to Muay Thai and schedule permitting, of course, is there, is there another.

[00:15:47] Ask, is there another martial art out there that you're curious about that this may, that

[00:15:52] you may, you know, that might be adjacent to this, that you would, you would look in

[00:15:55] the future or are you, are you happily, uh, you found your people in your sport?

[00:16:00] Yeah.

[00:16:00] I mean, honestly, like I really enjoy, uh, I really enjoy Muay Thai and like banging it

[00:16:06] out, but just because of the gym that I work out at, I'll do, um, although it's, I mean,

[00:16:11] it's been a while, but, um, I'll do jujitsu classes and then I'll do, uh, like full, just

[00:16:16] kind of MMA classes.

[00:16:18] And sometimes like I'll be sparring Muay Thai, like, cause like, depending on the day there's,

[00:16:24] I'll go five days a week and two days of the week are sparring days.

[00:16:27] And depending on who I'm sparring with some of the guys, like, what's kind of cool.

[00:16:31] Like, you know, you just get to know like the same, same guys, it's kind of a core group

[00:16:35] or whatever.

[00:16:35] And then people are always kind of coming in and out, but there's some of the guys that,

[00:16:39] that, um, like try to do more stuff like doing, you know, they do MMA.

[00:16:45] And so when I'm sparring with them, you know, we'll, you know, like kind of before, like,

[00:16:50] we start around like, all right, let's, we'll do, you know, we'll do kind of, we'll do everything.

[00:16:54] And so they'll, you know, so they can practice take downs and, you know, essentially, you know,

[00:16:59] ground a pound and jujitsu and stuff.

[00:17:01] So.

[00:17:03] You mentioned earlier, one of your friends having needed surgery.

[00:17:06] Is there a characteristic injury that afflicts people that do what you do?

[00:17:11] Or is it, is it anything from, from dental work to, to the feet, to, to everything?

[00:17:18] No, man.

[00:17:19] So, okay.

[00:17:19] Oh, that's a great question.

[00:17:21] Injury.

[00:17:22] I told you, you need to ask good questions.

[00:17:23] Dude.

[00:17:24] Okay.

[00:17:24] So I will tell you.

[00:17:25] I was not taking dental work at all as I was sitting here.

[00:17:27] No, I was like, man, I was like, man, that's a pretty savage.

[00:17:30] It's like knocking people's teeth out.

[00:17:32] Right.

[00:17:32] Hey, I'm here for the Muay Thai class.

[00:17:34] I mean like taking people up.

[00:17:36] No, I mean, honestly, like, uh, when, when you're doing like, here's the thing is like,

[00:17:42] you, you don't want to break your friend.

[00:17:44] You don't want to break your buddies.

[00:17:45] Cause if you break your buddies and you get injured a lot, then like, like you beat up

[00:17:50] your buddy and then you don't have anybody that you can play with anymore.

[00:17:53] You can't spar with, you know, somebody, if they're, you know, they can't come to class

[00:17:57] anymore.

[00:17:58] Cause they, you know, they broke something or whatever.

[00:17:59] So like, honestly, part of, part of like a good gym is like, you know, you don't like,

[00:18:04] it's kind of interesting when I talk to people about this.

[00:18:07] Um, like I'll try to invite like other friends or people I know, like, dude, come, come do

[00:18:10] a class with me or come spar or whatever.

[00:18:11] Like, um, you know, other guys or, or gals or whoever.

[00:18:16] And I think from the outside, people have this perception that like, oh, you're going to show

[00:18:19] up to the gym and it's going to be like, I don't know, like, like an eighties, like,

[00:18:22] like cheesy, like Jean-Claude Van Damme movie.

[00:18:25] Like we're going to walk in and like, I somebody and you're going to have to like fight to

[00:18:28] the death or whatever.

[00:18:29] But, um, that's just Thursdays.

[00:18:31] No, that's yeah.

[00:18:32] That's depends on, depends on who's running the class that day, but no, it's like, not

[00:18:36] at all.

[00:18:36] It's like you have like within like a fighting gym.

[00:18:39] I mean, every, here's the deal.

[00:18:41] Like every gym has kind of a different, different culture.

[00:18:43] It's really driven by like the coaches, you know?

[00:18:45] Yeah.

[00:18:45] Um, yeah.

[00:18:46] But, uh, but like at the gym where I go, Wasatch combat, um, the like, like super chill, super

[00:18:55] mellow people that are also just like, you know, they're killers.

[00:19:00] Like, you know, they can hurt you, you know, real bad, but, but, um, but yeah.

[00:19:04] So one of the cool things about people that, that do Muay Thai and do jujitsu and fight

[00:19:09] as a hobby or whatever, or even like, you know, there's people that are in there training

[00:19:13] for, you know, you know, um, trying to like actually have a career is that if you're going

[00:19:20] a lot, like the kind of the ego goes away because.

[00:19:22] You know, you've been beat up, you've beat up other people.

[00:19:26] And so you like, you know, there's like your ego kind of goes away a little bit and you're,

[00:19:30] you know, you're chill and you're mellow.

[00:19:31] And so like when we're doing classes and even like when you're sparring, you're not just

[00:19:35] like going from like zero to a hundred, you know, you're kind of like, so like,

[00:19:39] you know, um, last week I was, I was sparring with a rotating and in one sparring session,

[00:19:46] I was sparring with a girl, Joe, and she's like half my body weight and she's like five

[00:19:52] foot tall.

[00:19:53] Right.

[00:19:53] And so like, you know, if I like rolled up on her and just, you know, cracker, I'm like,

[00:19:57] like what the heck, you know, what are you doing, man?

[00:19:59] Like, you know, obviously.

[00:20:00] So like, you know, I'm, I'm working with Joe and like, she's got stuff that she's trying

[00:20:03] to like, that she's trying to work on technique that she's trying to improve or whatever.

[00:20:07] And so, you know, you just like, and that's one of the cool things.

[00:20:10] You just, you kind of have to learn, like, you know, you, uh, you kind of respect and

[00:20:14] you kind of, yeah, it's a bit of a dance, you know?

[00:20:16] And, and then, um, and when you know people, like if I go to, so it's when that same session,

[00:20:22] like I'm also sparring with a guy, Scott, and he's like in his early sixties.

[00:20:25] I mean, he has to take his hearing aids out before we spar, you know?

[00:20:28] And so it's like, I'm not gonna, you know, it's like, okay, cool.

[00:20:31] I can, you know, I can kick him and like break his leg or whatever.

[00:20:35] Like, okay, cool.

[00:20:36] So now Scott can't come play anymore.

[00:20:38] Like you're not going to do that.

[00:20:39] Right.

[00:20:40] But then the same in the same thing, like there's another guy, Jeff there, you know,

[00:20:43] who's got, you know, tons of amateur fights under his belt.

[00:20:46] And it's like, if I, you know, try to like, you know, get all, you know, get cute with him

[00:20:51] and try and go too hard, you know, he'll go from like one minute.

[00:20:54] We're just, you know, we're cool.

[00:20:55] We're moving and we're just kind of dancing and, and feeling each other out.

[00:20:58] And then if I ramp it up and it's like, all right, man, you want to, you want to bang?

[00:21:03] Let's go, you know?

[00:21:03] And he can shut me down pretty easy.

[00:21:06] Right.

[00:21:06] So when you're, when you're in a fighting game, you're really like, first of all, you it's,

[00:21:11] there's a lot of trust that's involved, you know, it's like, um,

[00:21:15] and so you're okay.

[00:21:16] Like, okay, I'm going to try something I haven't tried before.

[00:21:19] I'm going to, I know that I know that if I get hit, I don't have to freak out.

[00:21:24] Cause I know I'm not in danger.

[00:21:25] Like, you know, if, if we're rolling and, you know, and Joe, she, she, you know, she cracks

[00:21:29] me in the, you know, in the, in the head, I don't have to like lose my temper.

[00:21:33] Like, I don't have to like freak out.

[00:21:34] Like, Oh no, I'm in danger.

[00:21:35] I gotta like, you know, whatever.

[00:21:36] It's like, whatever we trust each other.

[00:21:38] Like, yeah, we're just, we're just rolling.

[00:21:40] And, and, uh, anyway, so yeah.

[00:21:42] Yeah.

[00:21:43] So as far as injuries, I would say, uh, the main thing that I deal with is the, uh, like

[00:21:48] the cleaner that's on the mats, it drives my feet out.

[00:21:51] So I gotta work.

[00:21:52] Yeah.

[00:21:52] Watch those calluses.

[00:21:54] So yeah, no, but I'll tell you what, no, uh, early on when I was sparring, oh my gosh,

[00:21:59] have you ever, do you know what, are you familiar with?

[00:22:01] Like, uh, a check, like somebody checks a kick.

[00:22:05] Is that, does that sound familiar or is it familiar with that?

[00:22:07] Okay.

[00:22:07] A little bit.

[00:22:08] Okay.

[00:22:09] Uh, Joshua.

[00:22:09] So cool.

[00:22:10] So like, um, you go to kick somebody and let's say I go to like kick you in the thigh, kick

[00:22:15] you in the leg.

[00:22:16] Muay Thai.

[00:22:16] Like that's a very common technique is do a light kick.

[00:22:19] I go to kick you and you like put your leg up and I ended up kicking you in the knee.

[00:22:23] It's like, you checked my kick with your knee.

[00:22:24] Right.

[00:22:25] And so if you imagine like shin against the knee, like, that doesn't, that doesn't feel

[00:22:30] good.

[00:22:31] Right.

[00:22:32] Um, so when I was first, I was first, uh, like sparring in Muay Thai.

[00:22:37] Um, and like not knowing how to kick well, like, you know, like I'm telegraphing it from

[00:22:45] a mile away.

[00:22:45] I go to kick somebody and they're like, all right, here comes Mark.

[00:22:48] You know, I think I'm all quick and I think I'm all, you know, I think I'm all nice.

[00:22:51] And I go to kick and I get checked.

[00:22:53] And so there was a while where, um, my shins felt like peanut brittle.

[00:22:58] They were like, you know, like if you, if you're a runner and you have really bad shin

[00:23:01] splints and you walk and you're like, you just, your shins are just like, they feel like

[00:23:04] they're just, uh, you know, like a really bad shin splint.

[00:23:08] So yeah, for the, probably the first year in Muay Thai that happened several times where

[00:23:12] I like had a stop for like a month because my shins were just in just, yeah.

[00:23:17] Like, I don't know, like trouble.

[00:23:18] I don't know.

[00:23:19] Yeah.

[00:23:19] They were, they were, they were pretty jacked up.

[00:23:21] So, um, but yeah, that hasn't happened for a while.

[00:23:23] So good.

[00:23:24] So you talk about, you know, when, when you're in the fighting gym that, you know, everybody

[00:23:28] kind of has different techniques that they want to work on.

[00:23:30] Is that something that you, that you communicate ahead of time?

[00:23:31] Like, Hey, I really want to work on my uppercuts or I want to work on, you know, my, my shin

[00:23:35] checks from newbies.

[00:23:37] Um, you know, did you talk through that so that you can kind of give the other person that

[00:23:40] opportunity or if it's like, Hey, no, we're sparring.

[00:23:43] So that's great that you want to work on that.

[00:23:45] I'm going to, you know, I'm, but I'm going to do me and you try to figure out when you

[00:23:49] can, it depends on, yeah.

[00:23:50] It depends on whether or not you're an asshole.

[00:23:51] So that's fair.

[00:23:54] No.

[00:23:54] Yeah.

[00:23:55] For so, um, yes, definitely like before around, um, uh, and stuff like sometimes sparring

[00:24:02] will be kind of a little more guided by a coach.

[00:24:04] Like, Hey, I want you guys to work on, I want you guys to really work on, um, you know,

[00:24:10] when you go to strike, I want you to work on, you know, getting, taking angles on your

[00:24:13] opponent, you know?

[00:24:14] And, uh, so it's just kind of in the back of everyone's head, like, Hey, we're going

[00:24:17] to like work on this.

[00:24:18] Right.

[00:24:19] Um, or, you know, just barring with somebody and I'd be like, Hey man, I'm, uh, uh, I keep

[00:24:26] dropping my hand.

[00:24:26] Like, you know, when you, you know, you want to keep your hands up to like one kind of common

[00:24:30] kind of a thing that happens with people when they're fighting is, you know, like you'll

[00:24:34] throw a punch, you know, and then bring it back and you, and then you're not protecting

[00:24:39] your face.

[00:24:40] It's like, uh, Hey, I want to protect.

[00:24:42] I want to, I want to, I'm really trying to, uh, work on, you know, keeping my hands up,

[00:24:46] you know?

[00:24:46] So like, uh, so just be watching that and, you know, please like, you know, you know,

[00:24:52] trying to, you know, trying to, you know, tag me or try and get me.

[00:24:56] Um, cause I'm trying to work on where.

[00:24:57] So yeah.

[00:24:58] Yeah.

[00:24:58] So, um, so definitely.

[00:25:00] Yeah.

[00:25:01] Like before around, like, Hey, I'm trying to work on this or, or, Hey, I'm kind of, you

[00:25:05] know, whatever I got, you know, my, you know, or something, I guess you talked about injuries.

[00:25:09] Um, uh, a lot of times if you eat a lot of leg kicks, you know, like you'll come back

[00:25:15] to a class and like, I like big bruises or whatever.

[00:25:18] Like if your legs are hurting or whatever, like, Hey man, this leg, you know, my, my front

[00:25:22] leg is pretty jacked up.

[00:25:23] So just kind of go light on that leg or whatever, or, you know, just don't throw any leg kicks,

[00:25:27] you know, talk that out before you start sparring.

[00:25:29] So sure.

[00:25:30] You mentioned having a buddy that needs to take out his hearing gadgets.

[00:25:33] You and I both wear eyeglasses.

[00:25:35] Are you able to fight without glasses or do you have goggles?

[00:25:38] Oh yeah.

[00:25:38] Oh yeah.

[00:25:38] Okay.

[00:25:39] No, no.

[00:25:39] Yeah.

[00:25:39] You take them off.

[00:25:40] Yeah.

[00:25:40] I don't, you don't necessarily.

[00:25:44] Yeah.

[00:25:44] It's interesting too.

[00:25:45] Like when you're, when you're fighting, when you're sparring, um, uh, you're kind of,

[00:25:52] uh, you know, when you're like facing an opponent, you're kind of looking like right here

[00:25:55] at their chest.

[00:25:56] And like, as I'm looking at somebody's chest, like one kind of like, I guess, like issue

[00:26:01] that you'll see with, with people is, uh, they'll like, look where they're going to like,

[00:26:06] so like, I'm going to kick you.

[00:26:07] I'm going to kick your leg.

[00:26:08] And I looked down at your leg, you know?

[00:26:10] You know, it sounds like, you know, you're telegraphing whatever, like, but if you're,

[00:26:13] you know, if you're in, you keep your head down and you're looking just right here at

[00:26:16] somebody's, you know, somebody's, you know, their chest right here, then you can kind of

[00:26:19] see, um, you know, you can see their shoulders, you know, where they're moving and where somebody's

[00:26:25] shoulders moves, you know, you, you know, kind of what's coming.

[00:26:28] Um, and you can kind of peripheral is she see their hands, see their, uh, see their hips.

[00:26:33] And so really, if you can just look at somebody's core and even if you had kind of fuzzy vision,

[00:26:37] it's just like seeing that blob, you know, back and forth, you know?

[00:26:41] So, okay.

[00:26:42] Anyway, you mentioned that you're doing sparring, you go five days a week and you're sparring

[00:26:46] for two or three, what would you do on the other days?

[00:26:49] Yeah.

[00:26:49] Those are, those are more, uh, like guided by a coach.

[00:26:52] Like we're going to like, so today, for example, um, we were, uh, you know, it's a guided

[00:26:58] class with a coach, like working on technique.

[00:27:01] So, you know, we're practicing, uh, you know, different combinations, like, you know, uh,

[00:27:06] you know, it's like today we're working on like throwing a jab cross and then the leg kick.

[00:27:11] And then the person that's kind of, you know, holding for you is going to like check that

[00:27:14] kick and then return with a return with a hook, um, or return with a hook and a cross and a, and a body

[00:27:20] kick.

[00:27:21] And so like you have a coach walking around and kind of checking your technique and you know, whatever.

[00:27:25] So, okay.

[00:27:26] Okay.

[00:27:27] And do you, when you're sparring, is there, is it coach driven or referee driven?

[00:27:33] Is that there's somebody refereeing a fight when you're just, it's Thursday we're sparring?

[00:27:37] No, no.

[00:27:39] So sometimes, sometimes it'll be like a little guided and then like, there'll be a coach.

[00:27:43] They're just kind of like watching everybody.

[00:27:44] Yeah.

[00:27:45] Um, and maybe, maybe a coach is like sparring, you know, like doing rounds with people.

[00:27:50] But, but really what it looks like is we're just, we're setting the, we're setting the

[00:27:54] clock at three minute rounds and you're just like, okay, just taking turns.

[00:27:58] So three minutes, you know, you do around with somebody one minute rest, go with somebody else,

[00:28:03] do around.

[00:28:04] And you're just kind of, you know, with you and your partner that you're sparring with,

[00:28:07] you're, you're just kind of self, um, you know, kind of self managing the, you know,

[00:28:13] the, the fight for the, you know, the, the round.

[00:28:15] And do you ever do fights for real, like amateur or I guess not professional, but is that, is

[00:28:21] that, I mean, like in the running community, there's a certain kind of runner that says

[00:28:25] you're not a runner unless you're registered for a race.

[00:28:27] Otherwise you're just a jogger.

[00:28:28] Like, do you, are there, is there a fight on the calendar that you're, you, that you're

[00:28:32] looking ahead to?

[00:28:34] Currently?

[00:28:34] No.

[00:28:35] Um, however I have last year I signed up for a fight.

[00:28:40] Um, like put it on my information with a, like this, a local, I can't even remember what

[00:28:45] the name of, oh, um, gosh, I can't even, I couldn't even tell you what the name of the

[00:28:51] local organization.

[00:28:52] It was kind of a, I don't know.

[00:28:54] Uh, not like a charity thing, but anyway, a small little, uh, local promotion.

[00:28:59] Fight club.

[00:29:00] And no, it was, no, it was like a thing anyway.

[00:29:03] Um, and, uh, yeah, put in my stuff and they couldn't find a match for me or whatever.

[00:29:09] Um, so no, I've never like actually trained.

[00:29:12] I've never, I'm not currently training for a fight.

[00:29:14] Uh, friend of mine that I work out with Tony, um, was training for a fight that was going

[00:29:19] to happen the first week of December.

[00:29:21] And then his, the guy that he was going to fight with anyway, the fight got, the fight

[00:29:25] got canceled.

[00:29:25] So anyway, so occasionally you're, uh, um, like working out with people that are like training

[00:29:32] for an actual fight, which is kind of fun.

[00:29:34] Cause the intensity kicks up.

[00:29:37] Like when somebody been kind of interesting in the last couple of months as my friend,

[00:29:41] Tony was training for his fight.

[00:29:43] Uh, yeah.

[00:29:44] All of a sudden, like the seriousness, you go from like, different kind of goofing around.

[00:29:48] You're like, you're like, man, we got to rock and roll, man.

[00:29:50] Like, like just that level of intensity.

[00:29:52] Like, no.

[00:29:53] Yeah.

[00:29:54] I'll do my part to help you prep.

[00:29:55] Yeah.

[00:29:56] Yeah.

[00:29:56] Yeah.

[00:29:56] And so, I mean, honestly, like a couple of us, uh, um, yeah.

[00:30:00] Helping.

[00:30:01] Yeah.

[00:30:02] Training harder with them and, and whatever.

[00:30:04] So I might, I might do a fight.

[00:30:06] I, when I brought, it's funny when I brought it up last year, my wife, I was like, Hey,

[00:30:10] babe, how would you feel if, uh, um, I signed up for this?

[00:30:13] She's like, yeah, you should do it.

[00:30:15] And I was like, kind of surprised.

[00:30:16] I'm like, but, uh, so I have this kind of like, it's this ongoing, um, like in the back

[00:30:24] of my mind, like, Oh, that'd be a, I like always like want to do it, but then also always

[00:30:29] like a little scared and nervous to do it.

[00:30:31] So we'll see.

[00:30:32] We'll see.

[00:30:32] Talk about the gear that you use.

[00:30:34] Now you talk about the, the, the cleaners on the mat make your feet dry.

[00:30:38] So you're barefoot.

[00:30:39] So you're not wearing shoes.

[00:30:41] It sounds like.

[00:30:41] So what about like the hands?

[00:30:42] Are they, are there wraps?

[00:30:44] Are there gloves?

[00:30:44] Are they big oversized boxing gloves or really small aerodynamic, like more, you know,

[00:30:50] like NMAs.

[00:30:51] Yeah.

[00:30:52] Like what, what are you wearing when you're doing this?

[00:30:53] Yeah.

[00:30:54] So, um, uh, mouth, uh, mouth guard, um, you know, just like any sport, whatever, mouth

[00:31:03] guard, um, boxing gloves.

[00:31:05] So you have wraps and then gloves.

[00:31:07] And then depending on, um, you know what you're doing, like when I'm training and stuff,

[00:31:12] I'll use a, like a heavy, like a bigger, a 16 ounce glove, which is kind of a bigger,

[00:31:17] like boxing gloves.

[00:31:18] Um, it's like a pound.

[00:31:21] Yeah.

[00:31:21] Yeah.

[00:31:21] 16 ounces.

[00:31:22] Yeah.

[00:31:22] Yeah.

[00:31:22] So it's a, it's a heavier, it's more of a, like, um, like for training or whatever,

[00:31:26] right?

[00:31:26] Like you have this little bit of a heavier glove.

[00:31:28] So, um, it's, there's more work involved in, in fighting with that.

[00:31:32] And then also, um, there's more padding.

[00:31:35] So when you're hitting somebody, there's, there's a little more material to like, you know,

[00:31:39] protect their, you know, protect their face or protect their ribs or whatever, or like,

[00:31:42] you know, between your, your knuckles and their, their body.

[00:31:45] Um, the other thing, yeah, yeah.

[00:31:48] The other thing would be, uh, shin guards.

[00:31:51] It's so, uh, kind of like a, like a soccer, like shin guard or whatever, but, um, you know,

[00:31:56] it's a little bit like, you know, there's some, like some cushioning or whatever on it.

[00:31:59] And, uh, and then a cup, since you're kicking a lot, you, uh, you know, you end up inadvertently,

[00:32:06] like, you know, uh, kicking people in the groin or whatever.

[00:32:09] So, um, yeah.

[00:32:12] And how much of that is mandatory and how much of that is optional?

[00:32:14] Like, it sounds like your shin guard game was not where it needed to be the first year.

[00:32:18] No. Well, yeah. I mean, it's funny. It's like, well, how bad my kicking was,

[00:32:21] it wouldn't matter how good of shin guards that was wearing.

[00:32:24] But, uh, um, I would say the one like, um, yeah, when you're sparring with somebody,

[00:32:30] like you're going to wear gloves and you're going to wear shin guards.

[00:32:33] Um, and I would say like the one thing it's like, if you're going to, if you're,

[00:32:36] when you're sparring, the one thing is like definitely mandatory would be a mouth.

[00:32:40] Um, yeah. Cause that's, you know, you can knock someone's, you know, you know, knock a tooth out.

[00:32:46] Um, and then also someone's got their mouth open, uh, having a mouth, having a mouth guard helps

[00:32:51] kind of set the jaw, you know, so you're, you're not, you don't have a loose jaw.

[00:32:55] So you protect your jaw from getting broken and, um, a little bit better.

[00:33:00] And then some people wear, uh, um, whenever I talk about like sparring with people,

[00:33:05] they're always surprised. Like, oh, do you wear like, you like headgear or whatever?

[00:33:08] You know, like going to ask about headgear. Yeah. And, and no, actually, man, like headgear

[00:33:13] is the worst. Um, it's like, like, uh, like I, I don't know. Someone's going to watch this

[00:33:19] and be like, oh, Mark's a maybe there's no, he's talking about, which may obviously be the case.

[00:33:23] But, um, it seems like to me getting hit in the head, the real, like the real injury or damage

[00:33:30] is your brain sloshing around inside of your head. And so having a thin layer of cushion around your

[00:33:36] head, it's like, um, perhaps it's making it so like the force on my cheeks or something does not hurt as

[00:33:44] much, but my brain is still going to move around on the inside. And then when you have, when you have

[00:33:49] this thing on your head, it, it changes up, you know, cause you're like, you know, you're, when

[00:33:53] you're sparring or you're boxing and you have your hands up right in front of your face.

[00:33:56] And so if you, if you have this thing around your head now, all of a sudden your hands are like out

[00:34:01] here because, um, yeah, yeah. You've got, you got this like material here. So you can't like guard up

[00:34:07] as well. Like, in fact, uh, um, uh, a buddy of mine was, uh, was training for a, for a Muay Thai,

[00:34:14] for a Muay Thai fight. And he kept, um, uh, anyway, his name is Luke and he kept training.

[00:34:22] I shouldn't say that. We'll, we'll beat it out. Yeah. Let's just call him Luke.

[00:34:27] Yeah. What is, we'll just say his name is Luke. Anyway, whatever. Um, but he was, he kept training

[00:34:32] with it with his headgear on. And, uh, and so he said there and we kept training and because like,

[00:34:39] you know, like I said, like you've got this material around your head and I think he was

[00:34:43] wearing the headgear persistently because he was like, all right, I'm training really hard.

[00:34:48] I'm sparring harder with a lot of guys. And so I want to kind of protect myself. Like, okay, awesome.

[00:34:52] Totally cool. But because of that, I think he got used to like holding his hands out here.

[00:34:57] So when I'm sparring, it was just like so easy to just like down the middle, just, you know, cracking

[00:35:00] him right in the face. And then at his fight, it was so sad. He starts out and, and like right away,

[00:35:09] I do just cracks him right down the, right down the pipe. Just drop, knocks him out with a,

[00:35:15] with a, with a, with a cross, which is a straight, you know, like using your rear hand and just laid

[00:35:20] him out with this, you know? And I was like, Oh, freaking Luke, cool hand Luke. He was used to fighting with

[00:35:27] and so he didn't like protect his face anyway. So, uh, so I personally do not enjoy, uh, uh, sparring

[00:35:34] with, uh, um, headgear.

[00:35:36] And my buddy Tony, when he was just training for this fight that got canceled, he was wearing,

[00:35:41] he was wearing headgear, but, uh, kind of for the same reasons of like, you know, trying

[00:35:45] to be a little more, take care of his body a little bit as he, as he, as he prepared.

[00:35:49] But anyway, so.

[00:35:50] Is there a concussion protocol?

[00:35:53] Uh.

[00:35:54] Informal.

[00:35:56] Yeah.

[00:35:56] I'd say informal.

[00:35:57] Yeah.

[00:35:57] Like somebody gets, uh, if somebody, if you get, if you get rocked pretty good, but here's

[00:36:00] the thing, like when we're sparring with each other, like very rarely, like if, if it ever

[00:36:06] gets heated, I would say when I've been sparring, it'd be a breach of protocol.

[00:36:10] Somebody ended up with a concussion in the gym.

[00:36:12] Well, yeah, it's like, if someone like, it's like, if somebody like, I've really, I would

[00:36:17] say like the most dangerous person to spar with is like somebody who's new, I would call

[00:36:23] like, uh, like an 18 or 19 year old or like a college guy is like the most dangerous person

[00:36:30] to spar with.

[00:36:31] Yeah.

[00:36:31] It's like stereotypical, right?

[00:36:32] Obviously it doesn't apply to everybody, but kind of generally somebody's ego.

[00:36:36] Right.

[00:36:37] So like if they get, you know, he, you know, they get touched up a little bit, they get popped.

[00:36:41] All of a sudden there's that like, oh, Hey bro.

[00:36:44] You know, now we're in a fight, you know, all of a sudden somebody's adrenaline that fight

[00:36:47] or flight instinct kicks in and they feel like, oh, I'm in danger.

[00:36:50] I got to protect myself.

[00:36:51] Yeah.

[00:36:51] And they start, you know, throwing way harder than they realize they start kicking way harder

[00:36:56] than they realize they're doing.

[00:36:58] And, um, it doesn't matter who you are.

[00:37:00] If you're standing up and, and, and you're sparring, uh, even somebody who's like, you

[00:37:05] know, experienced or really good, somebody can get lucky and just, and crack you.

[00:37:10] And so, um, so anyway, like, so for me, like when there's, when there's like new guys

[00:37:16] that show up and they're sparring and, or like, you don't know somebody there's like,

[00:37:19] you have to like, with like a lot of just like, like, Hey man, Hey, you know, Hey, what's

[00:37:23] your name?

[00:37:24] You know, Oh, where are you from?

[00:37:25] You're like, like, Hey, you know, and like, when I start out with somebody like, all right,

[00:37:28] Hey, let's just, you know, let's just, let's just flow.

[00:37:30] Let's just kind of take it easy.

[00:37:31] You kind of get a feel for somebody.

[00:37:33] Um, and especially with like a young guy, this happened so many times where like, you

[00:37:37] know, um, start sparring with like a, like a college, you know, like some, some dude in

[00:37:41] college or whatever shows up.

[00:37:42] And, uh, and you know, you can, you can, you can tell, right.

[00:37:47] You kind of send somebody like, there's that like adrenaline.

[00:37:50] They're really tight, you know, when they're in the throwing and they don't realize how

[00:37:53] hard they're throwing and like, you know, they, you know, crack you.

[00:37:56] And, and so from my perspective, it's like, I could like, I could respond and be like,

[00:38:01] all this, this dude is like, okay, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to teach

[00:38:05] him a lesson or whatever.

[00:38:06] Right.

[00:38:06] Whippersnapper.

[00:38:07] Instead it's like, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:38:08] Right.

[00:38:09] Um, and then just my luck, I would try to, and he'd, you know, kick my ass, but, um, but

[00:38:14] instead of like, so if, you know, somebody, some new guy comes in and like, you know, is

[00:38:19] like throwing way too hard or whatever, like the best thing is like, oh, Hey man, here,

[00:38:22] let's just, just go light.

[00:38:24] And like, like, frankly, like get them to trust you.

[00:38:26] Like, you know, like they're hitting you way hard.

[00:38:29] And I, like I counter and I hit them back and they can feel that I'm like, I'm pulling

[00:38:33] my punches and like, I'm hitting them, but I'm, I'm not like, you know, trying to like,

[00:38:38] you know, trying to put them down.

[00:38:39] Yeah, exactly.

[00:38:40] And so they're like, yeah.

[00:38:41] Yeah.

[00:38:41] And so they're like, oh, okay.

[00:38:42] Like, oh, I'm okay.

[00:38:43] I'm okay.

[00:38:44] Like, even if he hits me, even if like, he overwhelms me and he's like, he could clearly

[00:38:48] like, you know, crack me hard.

[00:38:50] He's not doing it.

[00:38:51] He's like, okay.

[00:38:52] Okay.

[00:38:53] I'm okay.

[00:38:53] I'm okay.

[00:38:54] And so you can just kind of like talk somebody and I'm like, it's okay, man.

[00:38:56] Like, right.

[00:38:56] Let's just kind of flow through it.

[00:38:57] And, um, so, you know, it was like, there's kind of this, yeah, you have to kind of be willing

[00:39:03] to, or else easily, like things can escalate, you know?

[00:39:07] And so very rarely you'll see like two young guys or whatever, and they'll be sparring.

[00:39:11] And then all of a sudden it turns into like, you know, it's like, oh crap.

[00:39:16] They're like, they're like in a fight.

[00:39:17] They're like, they went from like sparring, like they're fighting.

[00:39:19] They're trying to, they're like trying to hurt each other.

[00:39:22] Um, and anyway, it's interesting.

[00:39:24] That's, I had like one experience where I was sparring with a young kid.

[00:39:31] And the first time that I was sparring with him, he probably had like just graduated from

[00:39:36] high school.

[00:39:36] Right.

[00:39:37] And so when we're sparring, so I've got like a hundred pounds on this kid.

[00:39:39] He's like, he's like, you know, really, really skinny and we're sparring.

[00:39:43] And I'm kind of like, you know, I can tell like, okay, I've got better technique.

[00:39:46] You know, I'm like, I can kind of like at will do what I want, you know, with him.

[00:39:50] And then, um, I didn't see him for a few months and he came back and he was sparring again.

[00:39:54] And when he came back, like he was, he had progressed so much.

[00:39:58] He was so fast.

[00:39:59] He was so strong.

[00:40:00] He was so good.

[00:40:01] And he was just like, he was just like piecing me up, just like owning me.

[00:40:06] Yeah.

[00:40:06] And I felt myself all of a sudden I was like that, like, uh, like that temper, like, oh,

[00:40:12] okay.

[00:40:12] All right.

[00:40:13] All right.

[00:40:14] Young, young kid.

[00:40:14] I'm going to teach you a lesson.

[00:40:15] Yeah.

[00:40:16] And, uh, and I ended up, I ended up throwing a hook and like, and I felt it like I threw

[00:40:21] it hard and like, you know, and, and when I hit him in the, I hit him in the side of

[00:40:25] the head and I, and all of a sudden I saw like, you know, blood come from like the side

[00:40:28] of it.

[00:40:28] And I was like, as soon as I did it, it was like, and like, and I was like, anyway, we

[00:40:33] finished around.

[00:40:34] I was like, I was like, dude, dude, I am like, that was not cool, man.

[00:40:39] Like I totally was like, no, no.

[00:40:41] I mean, he was funny.

[00:40:42] Cause he was like, he's like, no man, I can take it.

[00:40:44] Let's go.

[00:40:44] You know, I like it.

[00:40:45] Like, I want to go hard.

[00:40:46] I'm like, no, I'm not saying that you're not tough.

[00:40:48] Like, I know you can take it, man.

[00:40:49] Like, no, that's not what I'm saying.

[00:40:51] It's 7.15.

[00:40:51] We're going to work.

[00:40:52] Yeah.

[00:40:53] I was like, I was like, what I'm saying is like, like, no, you're, you're good, man.

[00:40:56] Like what I'm saying is I lost it.

[00:40:58] Like, I'm not okay.

[00:40:59] I'm apologizing.

[00:41:00] Not cause like, I don't think you can take a punch.

[00:41:02] You can obviously take a punch, but like, but like, you know, I, I lost control of myself.

[00:41:07] Like, like, you know, I was like, basically I was getting mad that you were, you know, you

[00:41:12] were piecing me up and like, you were beating me up.

[00:41:15] You know, you're this kid, you know, I'm like, I'm thinking, oh, you're this kid and I'm

[00:41:17] bigger than you and blah, blah, blah.

[00:41:18] And here you are to like, just owning me.

[00:41:21] And so I let my temper go.

[00:41:23] And, you know, and I was like, so I'm apologizing.

[00:41:26] Like, Hey, I'm sorry, man.

[00:41:28] Like, you know, I lost it.

[00:41:29] Like, you know, and yeah, I don't know if he quite got it.

[00:41:31] He was like, no man, I'm tough.

[00:41:32] I can handle it.

[00:41:33] And it's like, all right, I get it.

[00:41:34] You're tough.

[00:41:35] All right.

[00:41:35] My bad.

[00:41:35] Anyway, so it's interesting.

[00:41:39] Like what I found, like maybe as it relates to like the profession or like how it helps

[00:41:43] go there aspects of my life is like, um, uh, I found like with, with sparring specifically

[00:41:50] with fighting, it turns into, you're kind of facing your own fears.

[00:41:56] Um, so like, let's say I'm sparring with somebody.

[00:41:59] I know I'm sparring with my buddy, Jeff, and we're, I trust him.

[00:42:03] I know he's not going to cheap shot me.

[00:42:04] I know he can, he can, he can, he can hurt me bad, but I know he's not going to like,

[00:42:10] I trust him.

[00:42:10] We're good.

[00:42:12] Um, and so I find that when we're sparring, it ends up, it's like, you're kind of facing

[00:42:18] your own demons.

[00:42:18] You're like, uh, you know, you're, you're facing your own fears and, um, and like, you're

[00:42:25] like, and you're dealing like with your own, like pride and ego.

[00:42:28] So it's like, it ends up almost being this kind of like this internal motivation of like,

[00:42:32] huh, I see how I'm responding to this person.

[00:42:35] Um, I see how I'm responding to somebody who's like physically weaker than me, like, you know,

[00:42:40] or, or stronger than me.

[00:42:41] Like how am I reacting?

[00:42:42] And all of a sudden you're kind of having this very introspective.

[00:42:43] It's a very introspective experience.

[00:42:46] Um, to like, uh, to kind of reflect on.

[00:42:50] In fact, that's probably one of the most enjoyable things is after a, a good session of

[00:42:54] sparring is like talking with, with my buddies and you're, you're talking about things that

[00:43:00] were working well.

[00:43:01] And, but then you're also kind of like talking through like, what was, what's going on in

[00:43:04] your head and what you're feeling.

[00:43:06] Yeah.

[00:43:06] Cause you know, you're like, oh man, I was, um, and, uh, I don't know if you like thinking

[00:43:13] of like the term like head trash or whatever, like as an advisor, like, oh, I'm, oh, I don't

[00:43:16] know about making that phone call or, you know, like whatever, like anything that's going

[00:43:20] on your head, it's like kind of a similar thing that's happening.

[00:43:23] Um, you know, in real time, you're kind of exposing your, uh, it's a very raw experience.

[00:43:29] So anyway,

[00:43:31] The work that we do day in and day out between nine and five and beyond, there's a lot of

[00:43:36] coaching aspects involved for helping somebody that's at a, a lower informational stage,

[00:43:42] get to where they need to be.

[00:43:43] That's a skillset you have professionally.

[00:43:45] Is that going to show up someday in the future in the gym?

[00:43:48] Are you going to be one of the coaches someday since you've got the technical skills and

[00:43:51] the personal skills to do that?

[00:43:53] Yeah.

[00:43:53] No, I think like, no, it's like a real, like a real gym.

[00:43:58] The coaches are guys that have, that have actually fought.

[00:44:01] So like the class that I take right now, Mina.

[00:44:04] Yeah.

[00:44:04] Yeah.

[00:44:05] She's, I mean, so, so Mina, the coach, she, uh, um, you know, she's got a handful of,

[00:44:10] you know, of actual fights.

[00:44:11] Right.

[00:44:11] So there's a big difference.

[00:44:14] It's, I don't know.

[00:44:15] It'd be like, um, I like in the advisory community, somebody online, you know, like on social media,

[00:44:21] like spout off, or I always think about this, like financial commentators, uh, like, uh,

[00:44:26] talking about, you know, spout off about what people should do or whatever.

[00:44:30] There's a big difference between that person.

[00:44:32] And then the professional that like manages money or actually manages clients for a living.

[00:44:37] Yeah.

[00:44:37] And the way that those two people talk, you know, one is a little more, uh, um, arrogant,

[00:44:42] uh, you know, um, personality.

[00:44:45] Uh, yeah.

[00:44:46] Yeah.

[00:44:46] You know, they're more willing to kind of just like spout off things where the person

[00:44:49] who like does it professionally manages, manages investments or works with clients for a living.

[00:44:55] They're a little more, uh, uh, um, thoughtful in the way that they do things.

[00:45:00] Right.

[00:45:00] You can tell like as a professional, you can like, okay, this, this person is a professional.

[00:45:04] This person is an entertainer or whatever they are.

[00:45:07] Right.

[00:45:07] Yeah.

[00:45:08] And, um, and I think it's the same thing within, uh, you know, within fighting is there's a big difference, even between somebody who like has done it for a long time, taking a lot of classes or whatever, like is probably technically proficient.

[00:45:21] There's still a huge difference between that person and somebody who is like actually fought because, um, you're, yeah, you're, you're pushing yourself.

[00:45:30] Um, you're pushing yourself to a level that, uh, you can't know until you've actually done it.

[00:45:35] So anyway, so, but that being said, um, there is these little kind of, kind of coaching, uh, ask type of things.

[00:45:44] Like if, you know, somebody it's there, um, you know, they're kind of new taking classes or they're new to sparring.

[00:45:51] Yeah.

[00:45:52] Uh, there's very much this kind of like mentoring of like, you know, like, Hey, you know, like, yeah, yeah.

[00:45:57] Just like, but yeah, that's just, that's just like very kind of informal type of stuff.

[00:46:01] Yeah.

[00:46:01] Yeah.

[00:46:01] It seems like it's a, it's a, a very welcoming like environment and culture, like at least, and like, it probably depends on the gym.

[00:46:09] You probably have some, some places where there's just a whole lot of testosterone when you walk in.

[00:46:13] But, um, if that's not your thing, there's probably another gym where it is more of a, you know, an accepting, welcoming culture, but it sounds like your gym is, is, is, is a really nice place.

[00:46:22] Yeah, totally.

[00:46:23] Yeah, for sure.

[00:46:24] Yeah.

[00:46:24] When you first got into this a few years ago, you mentioned being married and what did the people in your life think about you taking up Muay Thai?

[00:46:32] Is this, what is he thinking to completely add a character?

[00:46:35] No, not really.

[00:46:36] Oh my gosh.

[00:46:36] No.

[00:46:37] Been waiting for a reason to pop him in the face with a legitimate reason.

[00:46:41] No, my, my wife is like, oh, cool.

[00:46:43] Like, I think when, uh, you know, um, kind of like dangerous hobbies or whatever, kind of like, uh, like violent sports or whatever.

[00:46:51] Um, you know, uh, I was in the army when we, when we were married and, uh, and so, um, I dunno, um, uh, kind of a culture of, just to say a culture of violence or whatever.

[00:47:08] Um, not quite the right way.

[00:47:09] You know, like I was, yeah, I dunno, but like, you know, I, you know, uh, the, uh, that kind of very, um, I dunno, masculine, not necessarily, but that like, okay, I'm, you know, I went to Afghanistan.

[00:47:21] I was deployed in the army when we were, you know, we were married.

[00:47:24] And so it's like, um, you know, being like, okay, I'm, I'm a person who I trained myself to be ready to, you know, close with and destroy the enemy, you know, train to kill, train to fight, you know, train to, you know, defeat the enemy.

[00:47:38] So that kind of like, it's not like I was like, oh, I've never done any type of like physical thing.

[00:47:44] And now all of a sudden I like, well, this is out of character.

[00:47:46] No, so it wasn't like you met in seminary, you know?

[00:47:48] No, no, no, no, no.

[00:47:50] You're doing Muay Thai.

[00:47:51] That's right.

[00:47:52] No, no, it wasn't like that.

[00:47:53] So yeah.

[00:47:54] You say that, but a buddy of mine that I met in church, a pastor of ours as a hobby briefly did, which I'm not comparing this at all, totally different, but just, he did the professional wrestling thing.

[00:48:05] Like the show, like the showmanship.

[00:48:07] And he did that for a few years.

[00:48:07] Oh, for real?

[00:48:08] That's awesome.

[00:48:09] That's cool.

[00:48:09] Yeah.

[00:48:09] Yeah.

[00:48:10] Yeah.

[00:48:12] Okay.

[00:48:14] And so you say you do this five days a week and sometimes we have the opportunity to travel, go to a conference or a vacation, whatever.

[00:48:19] If you're in a different city, are you looking up ahead of time?

[00:48:22] Where's the gym that I can go and meet some new people and learn some new skills and keep stay sharp on the road?

[00:48:27] Or is that a, this is my chance to get a break and recover while I'm man, that's crazy.

[00:48:31] I, you know what I actually.

[00:48:34] Um, so for my, for my work, I, I traveled very little.

[00:48:39] And so, um, I hadn't even thought about that.

[00:48:41] Yeah.

[00:48:42] I don't travel very much.

[00:48:43] So when I'm traveling, it's.

[00:48:44] I, PN live meet up Austin.

[00:48:45] We're going to do more toy in Austin next year.

[00:48:47] No, actually, no, that's not, not necessarily.

[00:48:49] There are like, uh, um, like, um, fight con, like, you know, like a comic on fight con is one that I'm here in Salt Lake.

[00:48:57] Um, just a couple of months ago.

[00:48:59] And so like when there's like that type of thing, um, I'll go to that stuff.

[00:49:03] Uh, they'll have, you know, like fighters will come in, um, you know, and teach, uh, do like clinics, uh, you know, teaching stuff and you like watch fights.

[00:49:11] So like, usually like if, uh, UFC comes to, you know, comes to town or whatever, then usually there'll be.

[00:49:17] Uh, clinics and stuff that'll happen around that.

[00:49:20] You can go and, you know, train or whatever.

[00:49:22] And so, you know, I'm into that type of thing, but, um,

[00:49:24] Who are the vendors icon at a convention like that?

[00:49:27] Who's who are the big sponsors paying for that?

[00:49:29] Yeah.

[00:49:29] The sponsors are okay.

[00:49:31] So like all of the, uh, monster and, uh, yeah.

[00:49:34] Monster energy.

[00:49:35] Yeah.

[00:49:35] Yeah.

[00:49:35] No.

[00:49:36] So, um, all like the equipment.

[00:49:38] Yeah.

[00:49:38] Okay.

[00:49:38] What was that?

[00:49:39] Gear manufacturer.

[00:49:39] Yeah.

[00:49:40] Yeah.

[00:49:40] Yeah.

[00:49:40] So, uh, like all that stuff that I was talking about, like, um, so there's clothing, there's

[00:49:44] apparel that's kind of like specific to combat sports.

[00:49:48] Um, and then like all of the gear or whatever.

[00:49:50] And then a lot of like supplement nutritional stuff.

[00:49:53] Um, yeah.

[00:49:54] Okay.

[00:49:55] Yeah.

[00:49:55] So yeah, I think of kind of like physical fitness kind of generally, but then yeah, there's

[00:50:00] like specific equipment and, and, uh, apparel that are kind of a little more niche to combat.

[00:50:06] No lack of sponsorship at those events.

[00:50:08] No, no, there's a, yeah, there's a.

[00:50:10] Yeah.

[00:50:11] And then, and then if you think of like, you're a, you're a company that wants to, you know,

[00:50:15] target the demographic just kind of generally, right?

[00:50:17] Like, um, yeah, like monster energy drink, that would be a good, a good example, you know?

[00:50:22] Uh, so sometimes we talk to people and there's just a natural fit between their hobby

[00:50:27] and their profession.

[00:50:27] And they introduce people that they work with their clients, the profession, and they find

[00:50:31] clients from among their profession.

[00:50:33] Have you, are there colleagues or coworkers that you've, you've, you say you invite people

[00:50:39] to the gym?

[00:50:39] Is that the sort of thing you do with a client or is that the sort of thing that you don't

[00:50:42] want to give your best client cauliflower ears?

[00:50:44] And if you're, and if you ever walked into a client meeting with a shiner that you had

[00:50:47] to explain.

[00:50:48] Oh, dude.

[00:50:49] You know, what's so funny is I have thought about that so many times of like, I'm going

[00:50:52] to show up with this prospect and have a black eye and like, try to be this like, you

[00:50:57] know, like a frequent professional or like whatever.

[00:50:59] And they're like, they're like, who is this dude?

[00:51:01] Like, like, is he some crazy alcoholic?

[00:51:03] He's like, he just like tripped over, you know, like smash his face on the curb brawling.

[00:51:07] Um, I've never actually had that before, but, uh, there's not a huge natural fit between,

[00:51:12] um, between my, uh, yeah.

[00:51:16] Like, uh, my client base and, um, you know, and the hobby.

[00:51:20] However, like I've been super, so you don't have a good fight on.

[00:51:24] No.

[00:51:25] However, uh, I've gotten to some like professional, um, at the gym that I, that I work out at.

[00:51:30] I've done like, uh, there's a, a guy of a friend of mine, um, um, McCain who runs a marketing,

[00:51:40] uh, uh, set fire, set fire creative.

[00:51:44] Yeah.

[00:51:44] Anyway, he, um, and he's done like business networking, uh, you know, like meetings at

[00:51:51] the gym.

[00:51:52] So like sponsoring like a middle of the day kind of workout networking event.

[00:51:56] And those are a blast.

[00:51:57] So you show up and like, you know, you know, just kind of like have an easy class and, you

[00:52:03] know, and like get to know other people, other, whatever.

[00:52:05] So I've done some like networking stuff, but, um, you know, my demographic as far as my clients

[00:52:11] or people that are like retirement advice, uh, yeah.

[00:52:14] Trying to, uh, you know, within like a, you know, a couple of years of retirement or whatever.

[00:52:17] And so, um, yeah, there's not a ton of overlap, but you know, whatever.

[00:52:22] Okay.

[00:52:23] If, if someday, or if you already have kids, nieces and nephews, is it something that you'd

[00:52:27] introduce them to or?

[00:52:28] Oh, absolutely.

[00:52:29] Yeah.

[00:52:29] Yeah.

[00:52:30] So I do, I, we, somebody could do this like.

[00:52:33] Yeah.

[00:52:34] Oh my gosh.

[00:52:35] So in fact, the gym, uh, I mean, they have a class for little kids with little boys.

[00:52:41] Uh, it's tough if they're like, I would say younger than four, just because they just want

[00:52:46] to like run around.

[00:52:47] There's like zero, there's like, you know, herding cats or whatever, but like, yeah.

[00:52:52] Yeah.

[00:52:52] No kidding.

[00:52:53] Um, but yeah, like five, six, uh, um, and like jujitsu, uh, and, or Muay Thai.

[00:53:00] I mean, it's, it is, uh, yeah, it's, it's awesome.

[00:53:04] Yeah.

[00:53:05] It's, it's great for kids.

[00:53:07] And, uh, so with my kids, um, uh, it's funny.

[00:53:12] I say that I haven't, we haven't gotten them into like, um, doing like classes formally

[00:53:16] yet, but, uh, but yeah, um, I'm sure that we probably will.

[00:53:21] So.

[00:53:22] And do you have a home gym set up or is this something that strictly happens early in the

[00:53:27] morning at.

[00:53:29] Yeah.

[00:53:30] Just, uh, yeah, really just at the gym at home.

[00:53:33] Uh, kind of my, my kids, what they think, um, it's funny.

[00:53:38] I, I, I said all that, like, but I have, I've noticed like probably over the last six months.

[00:53:46] So I've, we have a, we have a nine year old girl and a six, uh, uh, uh, a six year old

[00:53:51] boy and then a three year old little girl.

[00:53:54] And, um, with my, with the two older ones, I have found myself like, um, kind of like,

[00:54:03] as we're just like, kind of playing and like roughhousing and wrestling, like, you know, like

[00:54:06] teaching on little things.

[00:54:08] And, uh, um, it's kind of a mixture of like, you know, respecting other people's bodies

[00:54:13] and, and, uh, you know, like it's kind of a more like, you know, self-confidence and kind

[00:54:19] of like self-defense and being respectful of other people, like the way that you, you

[00:54:25] know, interact with others and whatever.

[00:54:28] So.

[00:54:28] Cool.

[00:54:29] Yeah.

[00:54:29] All right.

[00:54:31] And what words you've only been in this three years, but you've come a long way.

[00:54:34] What words of advice would you give to yourself three years back that, uh, things you know,

[00:54:40] now that you wished you knew then?

[00:54:42] Oh man.

[00:54:42] Watch for the hip check, right?

[00:54:44] Watch for the, no, uh, stretch more, stretch more.

[00:54:48] Oh my gosh, dude.

[00:54:50] I, uh, I used to like hardly ever stretch and like, like flexibility, but there's like,

[00:54:56] that's something like, as I've gotten, I'm in my mid thirties.

[00:54:59] Right.

[00:54:59] Um, but like, I've like, because of Muay Thai, because I'm like, oh man, I want to be able

[00:55:06] to throw a, like, like I want to be able to kick somebody in the head, kick them in the

[00:55:09] face.

[00:55:10] You know?

[00:55:10] Oh, to do that.

[00:55:11] I gotta like, I gotta like, I gotta get, you know, I gotta increase my flexibility.

[00:55:15] But then like, as I'm so like, I've like been delighted by like the benefits of stretching

[00:55:22] regularly.

[00:55:22] I'm like, oh my goodness, this makes my back feel so much better.

[00:55:25] This makes my body feel so much better.

[00:55:27] I sleep.

[00:55:27] And I'm like, I would like, like stretching is so good for you.

[00:55:32] And, uh, but I only kind of stumbled upon it out of like, man, I want to kick somebody

[00:55:35] in the head, you know?

[00:55:36] Yeah.

[00:55:37] And so, uh, um, I haven't, I, I would say that I've only been like kind of like stretching

[00:55:42] in earnest probably the last year.

[00:55:44] And it was kind of like, yeah, but like, you know, it's just, oh my gosh, like just like

[00:55:48] a general, like physical health thing is like, yeah.

[00:55:51] And I would have said, uh, maybe, um, did they not teach you in the army?

[00:55:56] Oh yeah, they do.

[00:55:57] But I mean, it's like, you know, hey, whatever the army is like, um, is like high school football,

[00:56:03] but just extends into your twenties and thirties.

[00:56:06] Yeah.

[00:56:06] You know, you're kind of like, you know, like whatever.

[00:56:09] And it's like, flexibility is always like kind of for like, for wusses, which is like

[00:56:15] so stupid.

[00:56:16] It's for baseball players and track players.

[00:56:18] Yeah.

[00:56:18] At least it was for the Air Force.

[00:56:20] They, they stretch.

[00:56:21] Stretch.

[00:56:22] Like, come on.

[00:56:23] Like, anyway.

[00:56:25] So what's your, well, like, do you have like, is this something you do like routine

[00:56:28] like, like every day or every morning, every night?

[00:56:30] Like what's your, what's your stretching regimen look like?

[00:56:32] Oh yeah.

[00:56:33] And well, anyway, like before, um, using that best stretching is after like, you know, uh,

[00:56:41] like after a workout.

[00:56:42] So after like a class or whatever, it's like, you know, after your body's really warm and

[00:56:46] stuff and it's like, okay, I'm going to like, I'm going to get down and I'm going to like,

[00:56:49] you know, work on like almost doing, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm like, you know, I'm like

[00:56:54] almost doing the splits now.

[00:56:55] Like this is nuts.

[00:56:56] You know what I'm saying?

[00:56:56] Um, but, uh, and then usually like in the evenings sitting, like watching TV or whatever,

[00:57:03] it's like, oh, my like default, uh, is, you know, get down and stretch.

[00:57:08] Um, yeah.

[00:57:10] And then mornings kind of like a morning, like, like, like doing like morning meditation,

[00:57:15] um, or like, like prayer or meditation.

[00:57:18] It's like doing that.

[00:57:19] And like a, like a kind of like in a stretching position or reading, uh, you know, doing

[00:57:25] like some, you know, type of like spiritual, like scripture or something like kind of like

[00:57:28] a morning routine doing that.

[00:57:30] Like in like stretching is like, it's like now it's like, it's like a new cheat code.

[00:57:35] It's like, oh, I'm like doubling up.

[00:57:36] This is like good for my body.

[00:57:38] Good for my soul.

[00:57:39] You know?

[00:57:40] So anyway, yeah.

[00:57:41] Yeah.

[00:57:42] I love it now.

[00:57:43] That's cool.

[00:57:45] If somebody wanted to get into this, where would they go?

[00:57:47] Is there YouTube destination or is it find your local gym or?

[00:57:51] Oh, I don't.

[00:57:51] Yeah.

[00:57:52] Um, you know, it's in every area.

[00:57:54] It's like, I think it's way more common than it used to be, uh, mixed martial arts gyms,

[00:57:59] but, um, yeah, look up some gyms.

[00:58:03] And then I think, you know, if you've got a good one, like the coaches are, uh, you know,

[00:58:07] they've like done, you know, like professional or amateur fights.

[00:58:11] And then, you know, if the culture kind of lines up with what you're looking for, there's

[00:58:15] a, um, yeah, there's gyms that are, uh, you know, like a lot more kind of like hardcore bang,

[00:58:23] you know, they, you know, they spar hard and, uh, and then there's other gyms that

[00:58:28] are kind of more, uh, um, I don't know.

[00:58:30] I'd call them like kind of strip mall gyms where it's like, it's kind of a less of like

[00:58:35] a fighting gym and it's more like, Hey, we're going to, it's more like, you know, we're going

[00:58:39] to put on boxing gloves and like punch a bag for like cardio benefits or whatever.

[00:58:43] Sure.

[00:58:43] And, you know, I'm not like to, you know, which is fine actually even not, not even to be.

[00:58:48] Yeah.

[00:58:48] Yeah.

[00:58:49] Not even to be disparaging about any of those actually, but it's just, uh, um, you know,

[00:58:54] just really depends on what you're looking for.

[00:58:55] Like, cool.

[00:58:56] I kind of like, I like a little bit of the fighting stuff, you know, but just kind of purely

[00:59:00] from like a, you know, physical fitness and it's just kind of fun.

[00:59:04] Or am I, do I also, do I want to learn like real fighting technique?

[00:59:08] Um, and if I'm doing that, do I want to do it in a place where, you know, people are a

[00:59:13] little, they got to screw loose and then it's a little hardcore or, you know, one that's

[00:59:18] a little more mellow.

[00:59:19] So.

[00:59:19] Do you have a rivalry with another local gym?

[00:59:22] Oh yeah.

[00:59:23] Cobra Kai.

[00:59:24] No, no, I, no.

[00:59:26] I almost like want to like think of something like now, not really.

[00:59:29] It's not like that.

[00:59:30] Okay.

[00:59:30] No, no, no, no.

[00:59:31] So.

[00:59:32] And if somebody wanted to find the work that you do professionally, I see retirement advice.

[00:59:37] If I went to the Google machine and typed in retirement advice, I don't know that I would

[00:59:40] find your firm.

[00:59:40] How do we, how do we find you specifically professionally?

[00:59:43] Yeah.

[00:59:44] Um, website is early retirement advice.com.

[00:59:47] Um, probably where you find the best content or anything is my YouTube channel.

[00:59:51] Okay.

[00:59:51] So if you search, uh, uh, retire early with Mark, um, YouTube channel, I'm always putting

[00:59:57] out content about yeah.

[00:59:59] Yeah.

[00:59:59] Stuff related to the field.

[01:00:02] Retiring, retiring before kind of that traditional, you know, age 65, mid sixties ish.

[01:00:07] So.

[01:00:07] Awesome.

[01:00:08] Awesome.

[01:00:09] Well, this has been a good one.

[01:00:10] You were right in the first place.

[01:00:11] Another six.

[01:00:11] I'm always right.

[01:00:12] Yeah.

[01:00:13] I know.

[01:00:13] Literally.

[01:00:14] I'm always right.

[01:00:15] W.R.A.

[01:00:15] Jude.

[01:00:16] It's been a lifelong gift that pun.

[01:00:19] And here we are, but no, Mark, this is really, really cool.

[01:00:22] Uh, you're as, as we said, before we started recording, like you're our first martial

[01:00:26] art hobbyist.

[01:00:29] So, uh, not the most dangerous hobby.

[01:00:30] Bull riding still has got you beat.

[01:00:32] Yeah.

[01:00:33] That is, that is nuts.

[01:00:34] I, I can't imagine.

[01:00:36] Um, I hope he's like soon.

[01:00:38] Yes.

[01:00:38] Yeah.

[01:00:39] Like here's the thing is like, it's a long time.

[01:00:41] That's yeah.

[01:00:42] Like this is a hobby that's like, you know, it's kind of physical, but you know, within

[01:00:46] the realm of like sanity, it's like a bull could step on your face and you're done.

[01:00:49] So anyway, maybe cut that out, but you can't stretch your way out of that.

[01:00:53] Yeah.

[01:00:54] No, you cannot.

[01:00:55] No, but, and, and, you know, we're, we're up against our self-regulated hour ish conversation

[01:01:01] with folks, but I could, I could talk even longer.

[01:01:02] I think, I think it's fascinating kind of the introspection part of it.

[01:01:07] Um, that, and just all of the mental health benefits of a hobby with, you know, with,

[01:01:15] with that, you know, with that characteristic, um, you know, would certainly pay dividends

[01:01:19] in art as far as overlap with our profession, but just as just being better humans on this

[01:01:26] planet, you know, just, just stuff like that.

[01:01:28] So, um, I love that, that part of it, uh, you know, of, of martial arts certainly.

[01:01:32] And, uh, no, this is, this is really interesting.

[01:01:35] I'm, uh, you know, I'm a little, I'm a little jealous that I gave up on boxing all those years

[01:01:40] ago, man, go join a gym.

[01:01:42] Yeah.

[01:01:42] Go do it.

[01:01:43] Yeah.

[01:01:43] I've got some, there's no lack.

[01:01:45] Well, I, I know.

[01:01:46] And it's funny.

[01:01:47] You're talking about your, you know, your coach, just like the very short state, going

[01:01:51] into gym, boxing gym.

[01:01:52] And, uh, and yeah, like the coach was just like the biggest teddy bear that could like

[01:01:58] crush somebody if he ever had to, but like, you never, like, you never know it.

[01:02:03] Fortunately, because if you ever did know it, like you'd be in trouble.

[01:02:07] And, uh, and, but it was, you know, very welcoming and all the things you're talking

[01:02:10] about with your gym, it's like, oh, I do catch that gym.

[01:02:12] That was really neat.

[01:02:13] And, uh, cardio is like cardio is so like, I, I, I felt like I need to go just like run

[01:02:23] for like three months before I come back to this, just to get in the cardio shape that

[01:02:28] you need to be in to do something like that.

[01:02:58] Yes.

[01:03:00] You know, to help, to help celebrate and then spread the, spread the news.

[01:03:04] Uh, when you have, uh, your next fight schedule, your first fight schedule, tell other clients

[01:03:07] all in on Mark.

[01:03:08] Yes.

[01:03:09] That's right.

[01:03:10] Yeah.

[01:03:11] Unless you want to lose a lot of money.

[01:03:12] Yeah.

[01:03:13] Oh, I thought this was an investing show.

[01:03:14] Yeah.

[01:03:15] Anyway, don't.

[01:03:15] It's not.

[01:03:15] Yeah.

[01:03:17] Right on.

[01:03:17] Well, hey, thanks again.

[01:03:18] Uh, this has been great.

[01:03:19] And, uh, we'll, uh, we'll look forward to talking to you again in the future.

[01:03:23] Appreciate it.

[01:03:24] Right on.

[01:03:24] See you guys.

[01:03:25] Unexpected hobbies of financial advisors is brought to you by fiduciary CFO, forward

[01:03:31] thinking tax and planning solutions for business owners like RIA firms and their business owner

[01:03:36] clientele.

[01:03:38] The opinions of Brian, Joshua, and their guests are for entertainment purposes and should not

[01:03:43] be construed as legal tax, financial, or investment advice.

[01:03:47] You should know better than to take any of this content seriously.

[01:03:54] Thanks for being a fan of the show.

[01:03:56] If you were listening and thought to yourself, Hey, I know somebody they need to have on the

[01:04:00] show.

[01:04:00] You can do something about that.

[01:04:02] Go to unexpected hobbies.com slash nominate and tell us who they are and what they do.

[01:04:08] That's so interesting and unexpected.

[01:04:10] If we agree, we'll send them an invitation and we'll hope they say yes.

[01:04:14] No, it's unexpected hobbies.com slash nominate.