Free Diving with Sharks w/ Brooke Stanford

[00:00:05] Welcome to Unexpected Hobbies of Financial Advisors, the podcast where welcome to the Unexpected Hobbies of Financial Advisors podcast. I'm Brian Wright with Fiduciary CFO alongside my co-host and fellow financial advisor Joshua Walker. It's great to be here today. Glad you're here, Joshua. Joining us today is Brooke Stanford with her unexpected hobby, free diving with sharks. What? Let's talk about that. Hi, Brooke. Thanks for joining us. Hi, Brian. Thank you for having me.

[00:00:34] Free diving with sharks, right? I didn't mishear that. With sharks, like the fish with teeth, right?

[00:00:40] Correct. Yes.

[00:00:42] Except not fish. Well, okay. How in the world did you get into this hobby?

[00:00:50] Sure. So I grew up in a very adventurous family. It was a surfing, diving family. And actually, the way it became my passion is through my brother making fun of me surfing. I just didn't want to compete with him anymore. And I switched gears. I was like, you know what? This isn't a competition.

[00:01:09] I can explore wildlife. I can explore wildlife and just enjoy the journey. So I picked that up. He joins me sometimes, but that one's definitely my passion.

[00:01:20] Was this an older brother or a younger brother that was making all the fuss?

[00:01:24] A younger brother.

[00:01:25] Oh, I expected older. That's an older brother move.

[00:01:29] It is.

[00:01:30] Oh, geez. The nerve. Okay. So how old then were you when, I mean, were you three and barely able to stand on a little plank? Or was this something that happened when you were old enough to know better?

[00:01:42] No, we started in the ocean very, very young. I would say I probably started free diving. I'll say snorkeling. It was probably in shallower water between six and eight.

[00:01:56] Okay. And where in the world were you? Which coast are we talking about here?

[00:02:01] So I'm from South Florida on the East Coast, but I've traveled all over Central America and have made it down to South America in the Guapagos.

[00:02:10] Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. Excellent. So when this appointment was first arranged, it came through as free diving. And I thought, okay, that's interesting. We're going to talk about breathing and the lack of tanks and all that.

[00:02:21] And then later on, it was with sharks. So which came first? Because you talked about surfing and then looking at wildlife, but surfing is mostly supposed to be up on the surface.

[00:02:33] So what made you think? What lies beneath? Let's look down there.

[00:02:38] I've always loved the environment and wildlife, so it probably started there.

[00:02:44] There's some cool fish in South Florida called parrotfish that are super colorful.

[00:02:48] So as a kid, that just always intrigued us.

[00:02:51] And then it developed into just sharks.

[00:02:54] They're not as scary when you're under the water versus above it.

[00:02:59] But really it was just looking at wildlife under the water.

[00:03:03] And then once we started seeing sharks and how cool they were, they grew from there.

[00:03:08] Okay. And I know that the world of sharks is as broad as the world of dogs and that there's a lot of variety there.

[00:03:15] We had the fellow from Tybee Island who talked about the dock puppies, little lemon sharks that are harmless and cute and adorable and they feed them bait.

[00:03:23] What sort of sharks are you willing to interact with and what will you stay away from?

[00:03:27] Sure. As a kid, it was definitely nurse sharks.

[00:03:30] They hung out at the bottom. They didn't bug you.

[00:03:32] They weren't trying to attack you, anything like that.

[00:03:34] I don't know if I would say lemon sharks are cute.

[00:03:37] I think they actually look quite scary, but they don't really bug you either.

[00:03:42] I don't mind reef sharks.

[00:03:44] If there's a bull shark or something like that, I'm getting out of the water.

[00:03:49] Okay. And what scale are these critters?

[00:03:52] Are they the six foot thing or the 16 foot thing?

[00:03:54] No, they're usually probably between six and eight feet is usually what we're diving with when we see them.

[00:04:01] Okay. And specifically free diving.

[00:04:04] I don't know much, but I understand that means you're responsible for your own air supply internally.

[00:04:09] That's it. Is that right?

[00:04:11] Yes. It's basically scuba diving, but without a tank is kind of how I explain it or snorkeling in deeper water.

[00:04:19] So scuba except for the S and the C and the U and the B and the A.

[00:04:22] Right.

[00:04:24] Okay.

[00:04:24] Okay. Just diving.

[00:04:25] Okay. And not Olympic diving. That's different. That's different diving.

[00:04:29] Very true.

[00:04:30] And so have you pursued the competitive aspects of pushing yourself deeper and longer, or is it strictly about, I want to get to where I can get to see the wonderful creatures?

[00:04:41] The latter. I definitely rather to see the wildlife.

[00:04:46] There is a place in South Florida. I just haven't had the time to go. It's Florida free divers, but they teach you to hold your breath for about three and a half minutes.

[00:04:56] So to me, I could see more while I'm down there, but I feel like I can hold my breath for a decent amount of time where I get the job done on what I'm trying to do each dive.

[00:05:05] And why bother then with the, why not use tanks and stay down much, much longer? Why limit yourself if that's the right way to ask it?

[00:05:16] It's a lot of gear, probably more expensive. And I don't know. I just don't have an interest in that. I would. One of my goals is to go to South Africa and cage dive with great whites. So I would do it for that. But for what I want to do, I just don't want to deal with the hassle of scuba diving. And in my mind, it's cooler to free dive. Anybody can scuba dive.

[00:05:44] Okay. I've asked about 10 questions in a row. It's probably your turn to get something in there.

[00:05:48] Yeah. I just, uh, I, I still trying to wrap your mind around it. Yeah. I, I, I just don't, I having been in the water and I don't know. I just have, I guess I have a fear of drowning too. So it's like, I don't, to me, Hey, let's just see how long I can hold my breath underwater. Like my brain. I just can't compute that.

[00:06:11] It's a fun thing to do with kids, but yeah. Like, but different strokes are different folks. Like no judging. That's fine. I wouldn't get in a plane.

[00:06:17] With a private pilot either, but it's a me thing. It's not a them thing. So no, I'm just, I'm just kind of fascinated by.

[00:06:24] I'm guessing that you still retain a fear of drowning though. Right.

[00:06:28] Not really. I actually heard it's a really peaceful way to pass. Um, so no, and I've heard that too, but it doesn't change my fear of it.

[00:06:37] You all will probably find this really bizarre. So my dad, he, he grew up, he was a big wave surfer.

[00:06:43] He lifeguarded things like that. So as a kid, we had a pretty deep pool. He would make us practice, uh, holding our breath and things like that.

[00:06:52] And then he would also like pretend to drown us to see what would happen or what we would do and make sure we knew how to get out of it.

[00:07:01] Um, so most people find that weird. They're like, ah, but, uh, we did, we did practice those scenarios and practice staying calm underwater.

[00:07:09] Oh, the family that waterboards together stays together.

[00:07:13] That's right. It makes you tough. Makes you tough. It's good.

[00:07:17] And you mentioned that your brother will still sometimes go out with you. Is that surfing or diving?

[00:07:21] Are there other members of the family that have embraced your wildlife passion?

[00:07:24] My brother, uh, he'll go with me. My mom will not go in the ocean if she can't see her feet.

[00:07:30] So usually she declines unless it's crystal clear snorkeling and in very shallow water. But yeah, she, she's not sharks.

[00:07:37] My wife is that way. It wants to be able to see the water and fun fact on our honeymoon, we were in Jamaica, see the water crystal clear.

[00:07:43] She most definitely stepped in a sea urchin. Oh, so yeah.

[00:07:48] She has nobody to blame but herself because she could see it right there. Yeah.

[00:07:52] Okay. Okay. Did you consider a career in marine wildlife?

[00:07:57] I did as a kid. Um, I also don't really love cold water. I just, I'm, I'm a mass person.

[00:08:06] So I figure I'll keep that as, as my hobby. I'll, I'll do it in the areas I want to do it, but I don't want to be forced to go in cold water if I don't want to or explore that area.

[00:08:16] So that, that died off pretty quickly, but it was a thought.

[00:08:20] We talked to the cold plunge people and they specifically go without gear.

[00:08:23] We talked to the paddleboard people and she talked about, yeah, I want to do this year round.

[00:08:26] So I have a wetsuit. You're in South Florida.

[00:08:28] What is the range of temperatures that your water might get to?

[00:08:31] Oh, it's warm. It's between probably 70 and 80. I was just diving in California. That was cold. I want to say it was between 50 and 60 and I had a really thick wetsuit for that.

[00:08:42] When I went to the Galapagos also, it was La Nina. So the water was unexpectedly cold. So needed a wetsuit. So I do have those, but if I don't have to wear it, I, I won't.

[00:08:53] And our wetsuits, I'm guessing they're made to be neutral buoyancy, so they don't impact your ability to change your depth.

[00:09:01] Right. Yeah. It doesn't affect my diving.

[00:09:04] So if there's a narrow range of temperatures in the water in South Florida, does, does that mean that that attracts all of the same types of sharks are always in that same area or are there like migration patterns?

[00:09:15] I guess for lack of better words that, that different times of year, there'll be different, you know, different types of, of sea life that you see when you're free diving.

[00:09:23] That's a good question. I'm not quite sure of the migration patterns. Um, I just know that the various sharks that can be there. Uh, one of my favorite dive spots, they have two old hammerheads that hang out.

[00:09:36] I haven't seen them yet, but I've been trying to go down and see if I can find them. And then I know there's a group of, again, I say, usually get out of the water for this, but there's a group of like five bull sharks that are juveniles that hang out. Um, so just depends, but not, yeah, not quite.

[00:09:53] So that's the nature of the migration patterns.

[00:09:55] Is there a best time of day to go out and do this? Is this something that you do a every morning, 5 AM, or is it you wait until the sun is most overhead? What, what works and what doesn't?

[00:10:05] So when I'm, I'm in Jacksonville, Florida right now, when I go down to South Florida, I try to go at incoming high tide. Um, so about an hour before dead high is when it seems to be the clearest and gives me the most diving time.

[00:10:19] Um, and I, I like to go in the mornings if, if it works.

[00:10:23] Do you carry your own illumination in case it's sun is setting and it's getting away from you or is that not part of your, your anti-gear? So I'm guessing not.

[00:10:32] Yeah, no, I have my, my dive flag and, and that's really about it.

[00:10:37] What's the purpose of a dive flag?

[00:10:39] So it's so boaters don't hate you and, and people know that you're diving there.

[00:10:43] So.

[00:10:44] Okay. And is it like this sort of blaze orange sort of thing that sits up on the surface to, how does it work?

[00:10:49] It does. It's a red and white, like triangle flag. Um, and it floats at the top.

[00:10:54] And so there's line depending on how deep you're diving down, you can let out line.

[00:10:59] Um, so it just follows you, follows you around.

[00:11:02] Okay. And is this something that you do in groups or is it a solo activity or all of the above, depending on what your fancy is?

[00:11:10] I always go with at least one person. Um, you're not really supposed to free dive alone, but yeah, I, I try not to go in big groups either.

[00:11:19] I'm, I'm always worried about other people and if, if they can keep up or they're overexerting themselves in a way they're not used to.

[00:11:26] So usually it's somebody with experience and, and one or two people I'll go with.

[00:11:31] So is this something that you, you do from the shore?

[00:11:33] You just kind of head out from the beach and swim out or do you hop in a boat and go out into a certain area that is a little further than, than being able to swim from the shore?

[00:11:43] Depends on the location. And in South Florida, I can just drive up to my spot and, and swim out.

[00:11:49] To where I want to go. Like when I was in the Galapagos, they drop you off on a boat in the middle of the ocean at that.

[00:11:56] This one really cool rock. Basically it's giant, but there's no land in sight.

[00:12:02] And are you into coral and stuff as well? Or is that mostly the, the, um, free motion sort of wildlife?

[00:12:08] I love looking at it. I don't know much about it, species, anything like that, but I, I tend to find the cool wildlife is surrounded by that coral anyway.

[00:12:18] So if, if I find it, I'll definitely go up and, and look at it.

[00:12:22] Yeah. That makes sense. That's where the nutrients are. There's small stuff and big stuff and then predator stuff. Yeah.

[00:12:27] Right. And you can tell how healthy a reef is based on, on the coral that's around.

[00:12:31] Um, so if there's live coral there, you know, it's a thriving reef.

[00:12:36] When was the first time that you traveled to a, well, let me ask this.

[00:12:40] Do you travel to destinations for doing this or do you end up at a destination and Hey, while I'm here, I'm going to do some diving.

[00:12:46] It depends. So I had a work trip, uh, in California and I extended that trip so that, that we could dive and surf.

[00:12:53] Um, so it, it really depends again, even the Galapagos one, it was more of a surf trip.

[00:13:00] We're like, Hey, there's great diving here. Let's do both.

[00:13:03] So if I can combine it with something, I definitely will.

[00:13:06] But that, uh, South Africa trip I mentioned that that'll be a dive trip.

[00:13:11] Yeah. Okay. Okay.

[00:13:13] And so where was the first place you went?

[00:13:16] Oh, good question.

[00:13:19] It was probably somewhere in the Caribbean.

[00:13:22] Caribbean. I've been all over to Caribbean.

[00:13:24] It was when I was really young, so I'm not going to be able to, to name drop a spot, but it was probably down there.

[00:13:31] Uh, and we got to see huge stingrays is, is what I remember.

[00:13:36] Okay. And is there the, the, the Mount Everest Mecca Jerusalem place that you intend to get to someday?

[00:13:46] I don't think so.

[00:13:47] The Galapagos, it sounds like it could be in that category.

[00:13:49] There's my bucket list item.

[00:13:52] Um, it's probably somewhere in Indonesia and I would love to dive with whale sharks there.

[00:13:59] And everyone's like, you know, you could do that on the Gulf or you could do it in Mexico.

[00:14:04] I really want to see the whale sharks over in the Indonesian area.

[00:14:07] So that that's probably my once in a lifetime trip.

[00:14:11] Hopefully it will be more than that, but that's my top goal.

[00:14:15] And when you go to a place, if you're not traveling with a surf partner or a dive partner, are there meetups, clubs, groups that you can find the person to do this with?

[00:14:26] I'm, I'm part of Facebook groups where I see that people do that.

[00:14:30] I haven't worked up the courage to, to solo travel yet.

[00:14:33] Uh, maybe I will one day, but, but there are people that do that.

[00:14:37] And I know people get certifications all over or they become a free dive or scuba dive instructor.

[00:14:43] So it kind of supports that lifestyle for a set period of time and, and they can explore the world while doing what they love.

[00:14:50] I always like to ask when there are these athletic pursuits, is there, is there like a pro circuit?

[00:14:56] Like, can you get really good at this where you're doing this and there's judging or, you know, like, like some of the other water sports or.

[00:15:03] That's a good question.

[00:15:04] I would think so, but I'm, I'm not fully sure.

[00:15:08] Okay.

[00:15:10] I was curious.

[00:15:11] Most of the people I know that free dive are using it to like spear fish and things like that.

[00:15:16] So they're bringing food back to their family.

[00:15:18] To me, that attracts more bull sharks.

[00:15:21] Not, not super interested in that.

[00:15:23] I'll, I'll eat the fish when somebody else gets it, but I'm, I'm there to explore.

[00:15:30] And it's been a minute since I sat through an entire shark week.

[00:15:34] Bull sharks, they're aggressive, right?

[00:15:36] They can be.

[00:15:37] They can be.

[00:15:37] So I always think like the great white is like the big, big mean bully in the ocean.

[00:15:41] But like the bull sharks, I think are, are they have worse?

[00:15:45] They're worse.

[00:15:45] Yeah.

[00:15:45] I think it's, I'm guessing they were named that way for a very good reason.

[00:15:51] Oh, unless it's one of those total misnomers, but unwelcome aggressive behavior.

[00:15:56] We're going to call that one a bull shark.

[00:15:57] Yeah.

[00:15:57] Dr.

[00:15:57] James bull that I, you know, identified it originally or whatever.

[00:16:00] Not, not that.

[00:16:01] Okay.

[00:16:02] Not that.

[00:16:03] So is how, do you have a place in Jacksonville that you get to go or is it, you just happen

[00:16:09] to live in Jacksonville, but you have to go elsewhere to enjoy this.

[00:16:12] I just happen to live in Jacksonville.

[00:16:15] I go elsewhere to enjoy it.

[00:16:16] I don't, I don't know of any dive spots here.

[00:16:18] If anybody else does, please let me know.

[00:16:21] I'm willing to wear a wetsuit.

[00:16:23] Um, but right now I don't have a set spot here.

[00:16:26] Okay.

[00:16:27] It's a few hundred miles of latitude from the South of Florida way up to the Northeast.

[00:16:32] So that, that is a meaningful difference in water conditions.

[00:16:35] Right.

[00:16:36] And it feels like a completely different state up here.

[00:16:39] Um, the, the weather's a lot different.

[00:16:41] It gets a lot colder.

[00:16:42] So you're right.

[00:16:44] Yeah.

[00:16:44] Okay.

[00:16:45] Okay.

[00:16:45] And is this the sort of thing that you get to invite clients or colleagues to go along

[00:16:51] to do, or is it something that, yeah, you know, if I'm going to get in the water, I'm

[00:16:55] going to carry my own oxygen on my back as that there's no thanks.

[00:16:59] I think I would be willing to, if they had experience doing it, I'm, like I said, I'm

[00:17:05] always worried about people being able to keep up or overexerting themselves.

[00:17:10] There's not a lifeguard anywhere nearby and nobody's drowning on my watch.

[00:17:14] And I also want to be able to enjoy it while we go.

[00:17:17] Uh, a snorkel trip might be more feasible.

[00:17:21] Um, but I, I only have one, one client that has done something like that.

[00:17:26] And actually she's in her seventies.

[00:17:28] So I wasn't expecting it and we bonded over it.

[00:17:31] She went, she did that South Africa trip.

[00:17:33] So she sent me all the, all the details.

[00:17:35] She said, Brooke, I did it.

[00:17:36] I did it years ago.

[00:17:37] I loved it.

[00:17:38] Um, so she's the only one I know that that currently dies, but I'd definitely be open

[00:17:43] to, to helping clients find their passion and, and continuing on that.

[00:17:47] But, um, shark diving might, might be put off till later.

[00:17:52] I was, that was going to be one of the things that I asked that slipped from my mind.

[00:17:55] You've been doing this since you were quite young.

[00:17:57] You're at peak physical health years right now.

[00:17:59] How deep into somebody's life is this the sort of thing that somebody can do?

[00:18:03] Is it apparently seventies if you've still got the capacity?

[00:18:06] Yes.

[00:18:07] I think it just depends on, on strength, endurance.

[00:18:10] If you're able to keep up with the currents depends on the conditions, but I would think

[00:18:15] you could do it lifelong as, as long as you're able to.

[00:18:18] Is there a standard characteristic injury that keeps people on the sidelines, shoulders

[00:18:24] or COVID?

[00:18:27] Well, yeah.

[00:18:28] I'm talking lung capacity.

[00:18:29] So what goes wrong?

[00:18:31] Uh, that's, that's a good question too.

[00:18:34] I would think maybe, maybe shoulder, shoulder injury could definitely bug somebody.

[00:18:38] The good thing about water is like water aerobics.

[00:18:41] People do that to recover.

[00:18:42] Right.

[00:18:42] So I don't, I don't think there's a lot of barriers to entry when it, when it comes to

[00:18:47] health, but not something I've, I've fully considered or thought about, I guess, cause

[00:18:51] it hasn't directly affected me.

[00:18:54] Yeah.

[00:18:55] Yeah.

[00:18:55] And if the time came someday, if you had kids of the age that might be interested,

[00:18:59] is that something you'd, a direction you'd encourage them to go?

[00:19:01] Oh, definitely.

[00:19:02] Yeah.

[00:19:03] Family bonding.

[00:19:05] Maybe I could drown them in the pool.

[00:19:08] They'll have the same childhood as me.

[00:19:10] Like a good, like all good parents do.

[00:19:11] Right.

[00:19:12] Yeah.

[00:19:12] Dad, teach my kids to swim, please.

[00:19:14] So you're in the Jacksonville area.

[00:19:15] And I know kind of that, that area is kind of known for its pirate heritage and, you know,

[00:19:20] all of the early days on the sea and that, you know, in that part of the country is,

[00:19:24] have you, which makes me, made me think of just shipwrecks.

[00:19:27] And I know that's a popular dive spot.

[00:19:29] Have you, have you ever done any, any shipwreck diving, free diving or, or, I mean, there's

[00:19:34] ships that are right closer to the, you know, to the shore than others, but is that something

[00:19:39] you've ever experienced?

[00:19:39] In Jacksonville?

[00:19:41] In Jacksonville?

[00:19:41] No.

[00:19:41] In the Caribbean and South Florida?

[00:19:43] Yes, definitely.

[00:19:44] Yeah.

[00:19:45] It was awesome.

[00:19:46] How deep can you get?

[00:19:49] Good question.

[00:19:51] I feel like I'm usually diving and pretty shallow, like between 25 and 35 feet.

[00:20:00] I've definitely been a lot deeper than that, but I would say that's, that's the, the main

[00:20:06] depth I'm, I'm used to.

[00:20:08] I know I can hold my breath that long easily.

[00:20:11] So, and how much time is that down and then at depth and back up?

[00:20:17] I feel like I recently have been holding my breath between a minute and a half and two

[00:20:23] minutes, two minutes might be pushing it.

[00:20:26] Um, but I, I have friends that have come with me.

[00:20:29] They're strong swimmers.

[00:20:31] They can't hold their breasts that long.

[00:20:32] They'll dive down quickly, look and go straight back up.

[00:20:36] Um, so I think it really just depends because I like to hang out on the bottom.

[00:20:40] So if I can just stay down where the cool wildlife is, I will for as long as my, my breath lets

[00:20:46] me.

[00:20:47] Okay.

[00:20:48] Brian here has a cat and a dog and the dog will come and find me, but the cat, I sort

[00:20:53] of have to sit still and let Leo come to me.

[00:20:55] Do you have the same, get down there and then stay put so that the critters will come up

[00:20:59] to you?

[00:21:00] Or is that not in your timescale?

[00:21:02] I don't know that they necessarily come up to me.

[00:21:05] I think the longer I, I stay put and I look at the small details, you'll start to notice

[00:21:12] more things.

[00:21:12] So it's not that animals or wildlife isn't there.

[00:21:16] It's just how long does it take to notice what is there?

[00:21:20] Yes.

[00:21:21] The human experience of looking at, to see rather than, yeah.

[00:21:24] Okay.

[00:21:25] Do you go with a camera?

[00:21:26] Laura?

[00:21:26] I, I have, um, I have in the past growing up, there is actually, you could put your phone

[00:21:32] in this clear case.

[00:21:35] It was called the water shop.

[00:21:37] So that was the first time I had done something like that.

[00:21:39] And I've, I've had pretty cool videos and pictures.

[00:21:42] And then now the, the GoPros are good.

[00:21:44] So we've used that as well.

[00:21:46] Well, if there's anything that you can share, send those along and we'll, we'll make sure

[00:21:50] that they get included.

[00:21:53] I felt like I had to follow up.

[00:21:54] They always just slip away.

[00:21:56] Yeah, I am.

[00:21:56] Struggle's real.

[00:21:57] Struggle's real.

[00:21:58] So what's the, what's the next, uh, what's the next point of, uh, uh, of, uh, of travel?

[00:22:04] Are you heading to South Florida this weekend or when, when's the next time you think you'll

[00:22:08] be in the water?

[00:22:09] Sure.

[00:22:09] I'll probably head to South Florida in about two weeks.

[00:22:12] Um, I'm planning to make a Nicaragua trip sometime in the near future.

[00:22:17] I haven't been diving there.

[00:22:19] That's usually a surf trip, but I'll see if I can find some diving.

[00:22:22] And then the last time I was in the Globgos was 2015.

[00:22:27] Um, so I'd love to, to go back again and explore a little further.

[00:22:32] Is the Mediterranean an option?

[00:22:34] Do people do this?

[00:22:36] I'm, I don't know.

[00:22:37] Italy, Greece, the water clear enough?

[00:22:39] I don't know.

[00:22:40] I think the water's clear enough.

[00:22:41] That's not my bucket list item.

[00:22:43] So I haven't, I haven't researched that to see if there's good diving over that way.

[00:22:48] Um, but if there is, I'd be, I'd be interested.

[00:22:51] You mentioned people spearfishing and coming back with food.

[00:22:55] Have you ever gotten into oysters, pearls, or are you more of the Boy Scout leave it the

[00:23:01] way you found it vibe?

[00:23:03] I'm more of the leave it the way you found it.

[00:23:05] I did go scalloping for the first time, uh, this past year.

[00:23:09] That was super fun.

[00:23:11] Um, but again, it's, it's not that I don't want to go spearfishing or something like that.

[00:23:17] Cause you know, you're, it's not wasteful.

[00:23:21] You're, you're eating it.

[00:23:22] You're enjoying it.

[00:23:23] It's not just killing things to kill things.

[00:23:25] Um, but sometimes it just attracts things.

[00:23:28] I don't want to be around like crazy bull sharks, but my, my brother's used to it.

[00:23:33] Family friends do that.

[00:23:34] So I'll, I'll leave that in there in their free diving bucket.

[00:23:37] Do you even, do you swim with even like a, I don't know, a knife or some sort of something

[00:23:43] that you can have a hope of protecting yourself or a bull shark decides it's, you know, your,

[00:23:48] your dinner, then it's your Swiss army knife.

[00:23:51] It's not going to, not going to do much for you.

[00:23:53] So usually there is a knife, but that's not, it's, it would be like if you're tangled

[00:23:57] or something, um, more than to cut away at whatever you're tangled in.

[00:24:02] Um, but I haven't really thought about it in, in terms of shooing away sharks.

[00:24:07] Most people probably do.

[00:24:09] That's probably a reason they have it, but bear mace or something probably wouldn't work

[00:24:12] very well underwater with it.

[00:24:13] I'm guessing not.

[00:24:15] We did have a recent guest that did all the Swiss army knives.

[00:24:17] I'm betting there's a, there's a dive knife in the Swiss army configuration.

[00:24:22] We can connect you.

[00:24:51] Yeah.

[00:24:53] I remember my dad and brother at the time kind of trying to shoo them away.

[00:24:57] My mom was screaming at the top of the water cause she, she hates sharks.

[00:25:00] Um, I thought it was funny.

[00:25:02] She did it.

[00:25:03] So I guess that would be the only somewhat close call.

[00:25:05] They were super close to, to my fin on the way up, but that w that was really it.

[00:25:10] And mom, that, that time mom nearly had a heart attack.

[00:25:13] That was the close, that was the close call.

[00:25:15] She'll never let me live that down.

[00:25:17] Yeah.

[00:25:18] And fin, is that for, is that gear on your feet?

[00:25:22] Yes.

[00:25:22] Yes.

[00:25:23] Okay.

[00:25:23] I would have, I would have thought to call them flippers, but they're fins.

[00:25:28] Fins, flippers.

[00:25:29] Yeah.

[00:25:30] Okay.

[00:25:31] Okay.

[00:25:31] So has there been anything from this hobby that's been applicable that you've been able

[00:25:36] to transferable lessons over to your day job?

[00:25:39] Um, I guess it would be look and look at the small details.

[00:25:43] There's probably something you missed or something more you can find kind of like, like that story.

[00:25:49] If you're looking at Coral, you think there's nothing there.

[00:25:52] There probably is.

[00:25:53] Um, I think that's, that's applicable, whether it's career or just in life and, uh, enjoy

[00:25:59] the journey.

[00:26:00] You know, don't, don't wait till retirement to, to start the journey.

[00:26:03] I, I'd love to help clients currently, currently plan, enjoy life, then, then make it to retirement

[00:26:09] and, and continue that plan.

[00:26:11] So that, I guess that would be the overlap.

[00:26:14] The way you spoke about gear and not wanting to be too entangled and encumbered by all the

[00:26:20] stuff with you, is that something that you apply to the tech stack that you use?

[00:26:24] Cause I know some people are, Hey, if there's a piece of software, I'm going to incorporate

[00:26:27] it to the practice.

[00:26:28] Or is it just you and Excel and, and the numbers and the math?

[00:26:32] We definitely have a tech stack that we like, but we don't want to overcomplicate things.

[00:26:37] We want to keep it simple, make sure it makes sense.

[00:26:40] Um, and, and kind of keep it clean.

[00:26:44] So no, we do definitely have a tech stack that we enjoy.

[00:26:47] We came from a tax background, so we took focus on tax efficiency, things of that nature.

[00:26:54] Um, yeah, yeah, but, but that's, yeah, that's it.

[00:26:58] Okay.

[00:26:59] Okay.

[00:26:59] And you've mentioned some of the, I asked about scary moments.

[00:27:02] Are there any, um, special moments or, or precious moments that you'll remember as being

[00:27:07] among your very favorites from, from the hobby?

[00:27:10] Uh, so one of my favorites was recently, I got to bring my partner down to go diving for

[00:27:15] the first time at my favorite dive spot.

[00:27:17] and I've been wanting to see a large spotted eagle ray for a long time.

[00:27:24] And during that trip, it was rainy.

[00:27:26] We weren't sure whether the clarity was going to be good or not that morning.

[00:27:29] And we're like, you know what?

[00:27:30] Let's just go see what we can find.

[00:27:33] And towards the end of the dive, there's a huge spotted eagle ray

[00:27:36] that just coasted on by.

[00:27:38] So that was definitely a highlight.

[00:27:41] Does your partner have an aquatic background or is this completely new?

[00:27:45] He does.

[00:27:46] Big surfer.

[00:27:49] Good.

[00:27:49] Strong in the water.

[00:27:50] Yeah.

[00:27:52] Okay.

[00:27:53] I'm guessing you don't get to do much surfing near Jacksonville either.

[00:27:58] I haven't surfed in a few years,

[00:28:00] but Jacksonville actually is a good spot for Florida to surf.

[00:28:03] It's better than South Florida.

[00:28:05] So there's that here.

[00:28:08] If somebody was interested in getting into this

[00:28:11] and they lived in a part of the world where it was plausible

[00:28:14] and the conditions were good,

[00:28:15] where would they go to start learning how to do this

[00:28:18] in a way that would be safe and most likely to lead to success?

[00:28:23] There's those dive schools like Florida free divers.

[00:28:26] They'll teach you all of the safety that's needed.

[00:28:30] They'll also help you work on holding your breath.

[00:28:33] So I would say that would probably be a good place to start if you're nervous.

[00:28:37] If you've done snorkeling before, I guess I'd just start saying start increasing to maybe some deeper reefs.

[00:28:46] Always have a buddy or something like that.

[00:28:49] But I think you can work your way up to it.

[00:28:52] I'm guessing CPR certification just for the sake of loving your neighbor,

[00:28:57] making sure that nobody drowns on your watch.

[00:28:58] That's part of the drill as well.

[00:29:01] I don't know if the courses teach that.

[00:29:03] We grew up in a, like I said, my dad life guarded, I life guarded, my brother life guarded.

[00:29:09] So we had that background, but when we were super young, we didn't.

[00:29:14] So I'd say it's always a benefit to know, but probably not required.

[00:29:22] So I'm wondering, do you have like a big watch that tells you how long you've been under

[00:29:26] or are there signs your body gives you that tells you, okay, I'm a minute 40 in.

[00:29:32] I should probably head back up now.

[00:29:34] I just go based on my body.

[00:29:37] My brother usually has a watch on him or something like that just to see.

[00:29:40] I think they like to know, he has that competition in him of how long can I hold my breath?

[00:29:45] Can I hold it longer than her?

[00:29:47] So that's always there, but I just go based on how I'm feeling.

[00:29:51] And did I see what I wanted to see on that breath?

[00:29:54] Yes, I'll come back up, pick a new spot, go back down.

[00:29:58] I think it depends on the person.

[00:30:00] Is this the sort of thing you do for half an hour or four hours?

[00:30:03] Or how long is this an all day thing?

[00:30:05] I think it can be.

[00:30:07] I usually go for about an hour, hour and a half.

[00:30:10] But if there's more to see or if I just want to stay, I will.

[00:30:14] If I'm traveling, I'll definitely do it for longer.

[00:30:19] I kind of look at my fingers to see how pruney they get, you know,

[00:30:23] and you keep your hands in the water too long.

[00:30:24] And if that starts to get uncomfortable, that tends to be when I call time.

[00:30:29] Yeah.

[00:30:30] And I'm guessing it's aerobically challenging.

[00:30:33] So do you have to carry nutrition gel packs with you to make sure you don't get peckish?

[00:30:39] We usually have snacks either on the boat or on land when we get back in,

[00:30:45] but I'm not diving with snacks.

[00:30:47] But we definitely load up on water, Gatorade, protein, things like that.

[00:30:52] Bull sharks love Rice Krispie Treats.

[00:30:55] It's their favorite.

[00:30:56] It's their favorite.

[00:30:57] Mine too.

[00:30:59] Yeah.

[00:30:59] Okay.

[00:30:59] And if you could go back and address your younger self,

[00:31:02] what words of wisdom and words of warning would you give to yourself

[00:31:06] before embarking on this as a pursuit and a passion?

[00:31:10] I would say enjoy it more.

[00:31:12] You get caught up with other things in life.

[00:31:16] And I don't know, it brings me back to my roots of just, hey, enjoy the journey.

[00:31:23] You don't have to be, there's no certain goal you have to be at, no place you need to be.

[00:31:29] And yeah, just slow down, I guess.

[00:31:34] It's kind of slow down and enjoy it.

[00:31:36] Do it as much as possible when you're able to.

[00:31:40] With some of the people we have on, there's internet communities where, what's the name of Twitch?

[00:31:45] That one I'm thinking of Twitch, people will stream their pinballing on Twitch.

[00:31:48] Are there Pinterest boards, Instagram, people who want to put themselves out there in social media as free divers with the videos and photos?

[00:31:57] Where do they go for that?

[00:31:58] I would say YouTube's probably a big one.

[00:32:03] There's not that time limit, I think, that other social media platforms run into.

[00:32:07] I think Twitch is also something that can be long and that probably is more live streaming.

[00:32:14] But YouTube, I think people like they can go back, edit it, put in raw footage if they want to.

[00:32:20] And then if they're direct into a website, it increases their SEOs.

[00:32:25] So YouTube's probably the biggest one.

[00:32:26] And have you looked into that at all or is that not why you're doing it?

[00:32:30] Not why I'm doing it.

[00:32:31] Yeah, okay.

[00:32:31] I feel like whenever I have a camera, that's usually when I see the least amount of wildlife.

[00:32:37] Whenever I don't have it on me, I see the coolest things.

[00:32:41] So it's more for me.

[00:32:43] If I can get a good picture to hang on my wall or something like that, I'll definitely do it.

[00:32:47] But it's not really for others.

[00:32:50] Right.

[00:32:51] Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:32:52] Now you say you wanted to do cage diving for sharks.

[00:32:57] Is that just a natural progression or is there somebody you know has done that and that's what you want to do?

[00:33:04] Or why is that on the list?

[00:33:06] I think I was a bit of a strange child.

[00:33:09] You know, when you're a little kid and your parents are doing like word recognition or you're trying to show them that you're smart.

[00:33:17] We had one that was sharks.

[00:33:20] And that was my favorite one I'd always pick out.

[00:33:23] And I'd want to name all the different species of sharks and which one facts about them.

[00:33:27] And I think it kind of stemmed from there.

[00:33:29] And I just my dad has passed away now, but that was always the goal of ours to do together.

[00:33:35] And then just hearing a client still being able to do it while she's retired.

[00:33:40] I was like, wow, you know, and I'm definitely putting that at the top of the bucket list.

[00:33:45] I'm not putting it off.

[00:33:46] So it's definitely stemmed from early childhood.

[00:33:49] I think just wanting to show my knowledge.

[00:33:52] And then I was like, oh, you know, I really do.

[00:33:54] I really do like diving.

[00:33:55] It's just, you know, not just the science.

[00:33:58] Where did you go to college?

[00:34:00] Was your college decision based on being near the water or is that not, wasn't one of the selection criteria?

[00:34:05] That wasn't one of the selection criteria.

[00:34:07] I went to Florida State University.

[00:34:09] So I was a bit landlocked.

[00:34:12] I didn't go down.

[00:34:13] Is that a different one?

[00:34:14] Tallahassee.

[00:34:15] Tallahassee.

[00:34:16] And I'd go out on the water like off of St.

[00:34:18] Mark's and things like that, but wasn't to explore wildlife.

[00:34:21] It was just to enjoy, enjoy the ocean.

[00:34:24] Sunshine.

[00:34:24] Yeah.

[00:34:25] Great.

[00:34:25] We made it through my list and all the things I've been able to come up off the top of my head.

[00:34:29] I know you always have something in the background that you're thinking of an odd question to throw out there.

[00:34:33] Yeah.

[00:34:33] You know, when I sit through these and we learn all these different hobbies, like I see myself like, oh, I could do this.

[00:34:38] Maybe I should try this.

[00:34:39] And we had like the paddle board.

[00:34:40] It's like, oh, hey, next time I'm down in Florida, maybe I'll rental paddle boards, see what that's like.

[00:34:44] And yeah, I got nothing here.

[00:34:47] I can't see myself doing this.

[00:34:49] Well, the barrier to entry is even lower.

[00:34:51] You don't have to rent anything.

[00:34:52] I know, but I don't, I've snorkeled.

[00:34:57] I think that's very cool, but I don't know.

[00:35:00] I'm just, different strokes for different folks.

[00:35:02] That's fine.

[00:35:02] I couldn't get on the back of a bull either.

[00:35:04] And we still talk to bull riders, which was fantastic.

[00:35:07] So no, but that's my feeling in all of this.

[00:35:11] I think it's really interesting.

[00:35:13] It's almost like, I wish, I wish I had the courage to do it.

[00:35:16] And I know that's a between my ears thing, but it is, I like knowing people that do it.

[00:35:22] How about that?

[00:35:23] I like being able to say, hey, we talked to a free diver that free dives the sharks.

[00:35:26] Isn't that cool?

[00:35:27] And then I get like a lot of the same enjoyment as if I actually did it.

[00:35:30] I know somebody and now I know somebody and that's cool.

[00:35:33] Do you have to do conditioning?

[00:35:35] No, I'm sorry.

[00:35:35] Go ahead.

[00:35:36] I was going to say, bring, bring a mask.

[00:35:37] When you grab that paddle board, you never know.

[00:35:39] You might see something dive in.

[00:35:41] It's deeper than you expect.

[00:35:43] Could, could knock too off the bucket list.

[00:35:45] That's true.

[00:35:46] That's true.

[00:35:46] I see you falling off a paddle board more than once.

[00:35:49] So you may end up free diving accidentally.

[00:35:51] That's true.

[00:35:51] Just, yeah, out of necessity.

[00:35:52] So that's okay.

[00:35:53] Do you do conditioning between your dive trips?

[00:35:56] Are you running, crossfitting, ellipticals to maintain lung condition?

[00:36:01] I, I do some conditioning.

[00:36:03] It's usually like laps in the pool, how long you can hold your breath or kind of just holding

[00:36:08] yourself under.

[00:36:09] We have weighted belts as well.

[00:36:11] So it allows you to sink at the bottom versus, you know, spend all your time trying to make

[00:36:16] sure you're staying under.

[00:36:17] So that's some stuff that we do.

[00:36:20] But other than that, I'm, I'm not a big runner.

[00:36:23] I don't, I'm not passionate about it.

[00:36:25] I don't love it.

[00:36:26] Um, do Pilates, jujitsu, just stay, stay in shape, but otherwise pool.

[00:36:34] So the weighted belt is for training?

[00:36:36] That's what I use it for.

[00:36:38] Okay.

[00:36:39] But do free divers use a weighted belt?

[00:36:41] And I know scuba divers will, but like, or is that just...

[00:36:44] Yeah.

[00:36:45] I think some, some definitely do to stay under longer.

[00:36:49] In the spots I've been recently, I haven't had to use it.

[00:36:52] Um, I can stay under pretty well, but yeah, if you're used to floating up to the top and

[00:36:56] you're exerting all your energy doing that, a weighted, you know, there's different weights.

[00:37:01] So weighted belt could, could be useful.

[00:37:02] Yeah.

[00:37:03] I'm thinking through how that, that would impact.

[00:37:06] I'm going to say trim though your, your buoyancy front to back.

[00:37:09] If you're waiting, it's not equally distributed.

[00:37:12] It's around your waist.

[00:37:12] So that's going to be, it'd be hard to move naturally.

[00:37:17] I don't know.

[00:37:18] I'm just thinking, no, which is nothing.

[00:37:19] When I would need to get to the top, I would need to be getting to the top.

[00:37:23] Now for good reason.

[00:37:24] And I don't want anything that would slow me down from that.

[00:37:27] So I'm guessing there's a quick release.

[00:37:29] I'm hoping there's a quick release.

[00:37:31] I mean, it's like a clip so you could unclip it, but it's not, it's not too heavy where

[00:37:35] you can't get up.

[00:37:36] It really just prevents you from once you're down and you go down and you're just not

[00:37:41] shooting back up.

[00:37:42] Some, some people have a problem.

[00:37:43] They're like, I'm stuck at the top.

[00:37:46] So yeah, it's, it's not too heavy where you're, where you're panicking and have to take it

[00:37:50] off every time you go up.

[00:37:51] It's, it's just extra little extra weight.

[00:37:53] Just on a rucking vest then.

[00:37:56] No, not rucking.

[00:37:57] I have 60 pound plates on a rucking vest.

[00:38:00] Okay.

[00:38:00] Yeah.

[00:38:00] That's good.

[00:38:01] That makes me feel better.

[00:38:02] But it's probably easier to travel then because she has to carry nothing with her except a dive

[00:38:05] belt when the flag went.

[00:38:08] Yeah.

[00:38:09] Interesting.

[00:38:09] Cause the guests that we had on that did rucking had to carry the backpack and then plates

[00:38:13] and TSA didn't love it.

[00:38:14] And, or you just go where you're going to get and find rocks.

[00:38:17] But this is.

[00:38:18] Yeah.

[00:38:19] I bring mask fins, wetsuit and that's yeah.

[00:38:23] Dive flag.

[00:38:24] Okay.

[00:38:25] Okay.

[00:38:26] All right.

[00:38:26] Well, if people wanted to find out more about you professionally, where would they go to,

[00:38:30] to find out about your, your day job?

[00:38:32] Sure.

[00:38:32] The easiest place to find me is probably LinkedIn.

[00:38:35] Brooke Stanford, again, Jacksonville, Florida, Riverside Wealth Partners.

[00:38:39] And I think I'll start posting about hobbies more there too.

[00:38:42] And see if I can find clients that, that might be interested in that.

[00:38:46] Maybe we could do it together.

[00:38:47] Absolutely.

[00:38:48] We need to have like this, uh, uh, like episode 50, we have a followup of like, Hey, who's

[00:38:52] got clients out of this content?

[00:38:56] Maybe not.

[00:38:57] Maybe not.

[00:38:58] I don't know.

[00:38:58] But yeah, it's strange things have happened, but no, this is, this is great.

[00:39:02] I'm really glad that we had you on a very, very unique hobby.

[00:39:06] I've never talked to anyone that's done this and I don't know, maybe I may never talk to

[00:39:13] someone else that does.

[00:39:14] I don't know.

[00:39:15] It's on my radar now.

[00:39:15] It's like now, you know, when you're like you said with the coral, like when you're looking,

[00:39:19] you don't realize, you know, something, something's there.

[00:39:21] Maybe I'm surrounded by people who, who, uh, free dive with sharks and I'm just not aware

[00:39:25] of it.

[00:39:25] Well, Brian, we live in Indianapolis, so I'm guessing not, but yeah, that is true.

[00:39:30] That is true.

[00:39:31] It's not a lot of sharks in the white river.

[00:39:34] The clarity isn't probably what it thankfully could be in, you know, the Caribbean.

[00:39:38] So very good.

[00:39:39] Well, Hey Brooke, thank you so much for coming on.

[00:39:41] This is really interesting.

[00:39:43] Um, I've learned a lot about free diving with sharks and is, um, I'm convinced that I will

[00:39:48] not be free diving with sharks, but I'm glad you enjoy it.

[00:39:51] And, and that's all we can hope for here on this show.

[00:39:55] Thanks for being here.

[00:39:56] We appreciate it very much.

[00:39:57] Thank you, Beth.

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[00:40:34] show.

[00:40:34] You can do something about that.

[00:40:36] Go to unexpectedhobbies.com slash nominate and tell us who they are and what they do.

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