Electric Guitar with Anne Bollin Johnston

[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Anne Bollin Johnston with Created Wealth Advisory and my Unexpected Hobby is Electric Guitar.

[00:00:10] Welcome to Unexpected Hobbies of Financial Advisors, the podcast where we interview fellow financial advisors about their pursuits and pastimes beyond their professional persona, some of which may be surprising to their colleagues and clients.

[00:00:23] We're interested in what makes them tick and how their unexpected hobbies might or might not relate to their everyday lives.

[00:00:31] Here's our discussion with this week's guest.

[00:00:37] Welcome to the Unexpected Hobbies of Financial Advisors podcast.

[00:00:40] I'm Brian Wright with fiduciary CFO alongside my co-host and fellow financial advisor Joshua Walker.

[00:00:47] That's a bit much for somebody as humble as I am, the humblest of all, but it's good to be here today.

[00:00:51] Well, we're glad you're here and we're glad Anne's here because guitar, I sort of have a thing for this hobby.

[00:01:00] So we're surrounded, Brian.

[00:01:02] There's on every side, there's guitars.

[00:01:04] We are surrounded and there's no better things to be surrounded by than guitars.

[00:01:08] So, Anne, thanks for coming on.

[00:01:10] We'd love to talk to you about this unexpected hobby of yours.

[00:01:13] Thank you both so much for having me.

[00:01:15] I was delighted when you asked, especially when I found out that both of you are musicians.

[00:01:20] We are guilty as charged.

[00:01:22] Of a sort, yes.

[00:01:23] I only have five guitars, not nearly as many as Brian has here.

[00:01:26] How long have you been doing this and how extensively has your collection grown?

[00:01:30] You know, I have, I started playing in 2019 and I have three guitars that are all the exacts.

[00:01:40] They're all green.

[00:01:43] And so the only real important thing to me about the guitar at the beginning was the color.

[00:01:53] Which is usually very high on the, which is high on the list of your first guitar.

[00:01:58] Totally.

[00:02:00] Yeah.

[00:02:00] I mean, I bought these, my first guitar is actually right here.

[00:02:04] I just, so I just, I got this, we can get into the whole thing behind it.

[00:02:09] But the most important thing to me was this exact color.

[00:02:14] And why is that?

[00:02:15] Why was that so high on the selection criteria?

[00:02:17] Yeah.

[00:02:19] Um, so I, let's see at the time in my life, when I decided to start playing the guitar,

[00:02:24] I have no musical background really other than playing like the recorder and like, you

[00:02:29] know, elementary school or whatever.

[00:02:30] Ah, the devil's flute.

[00:02:31] Yes.

[00:02:32] Trevor's recorder.

[00:02:34] That was fine.

[00:02:35] I just remember like three blind mice, hot press buns, same song.

[00:02:39] I was like, okay, cool.

[00:02:40] Got that.

[00:02:40] Um, but, um, I was working at a big firm, a big wealth management firm.

[00:02:47] I've been there for a long time and I felt like, um, the main focus was on the technical

[00:02:54] side of finance.

[00:02:55] And I was sitting in meetings where I felt like, you know, clients were checking out because

[00:03:00] they're being presented with so much technical information.

[00:03:04] I wanted to find creative ways to engage people, but it was difficult to do in that environment.

[00:03:10] And so I had all this pent up creativity inside of me and I was working long hours.

[00:03:16] I felt like I was playing just a big game of whack-a-mole.

[00:03:19] I needed to do something to help, you know, with this exhaustion that I was feeling.

[00:03:25] And so being from Georgia, being around, um, big trees always made me feel like, um, coming

[00:03:33] home.

[00:03:34] And, and so in California, the big trees, um, that came to mind for me were in the redwoods.

[00:03:41] So I got in the car feeling exhausted and just drove North to the redwoods.

[00:03:45] And I felt like lifted out of this sense of exhaustion that I was feeling and the sense

[00:03:51] of freedom that I hadn't felt in a long time.

[00:03:54] And so when I left, I made a promise to myself and I was like, okay, I need to do like one

[00:03:59] thing that's just for me.

[00:04:02] That's like just for my own enjoyment.

[00:04:05] And the craziest thing that I could, that I could think of was like a bright green electric

[00:04:11] guitar that felt like freedom to me, you know?

[00:04:15] And so I was like, that's what I'm going to do.

[00:04:18] I'm going to get a guitar.

[00:04:19] And then that was my mission.

[00:04:20] And I was like, I have to find it in that exact color.

[00:04:23] And the color was important because that shade of green reminds me of fresh growth in nature.

[00:04:29] Something that's like fresh that comes out of the ground.

[00:04:31] And it just made me feel like that sense of freshness that I longed for in my life.

[00:04:36] And when you went hunting for this particular shade, did you go, was it local stores or was

[00:04:41] it eBay, Amazon, thrift shops, vendor.com?

[00:04:46] Where, where, where did you start your search?

[00:04:48] Well, I didn't, I didn't really know where to get a guitar at that point.

[00:04:52] I, and so I, I think I went online to guitar center and, um, and this is, you know, and I

[00:05:00] went on and I was just like green, green guitar.

[00:05:03] And I remember, you know, before I bought the green guitar, I had like a moment of like,

[00:05:09] well, should I actually do this?

[00:05:12] You know?

[00:05:13] And I called my best girlfriend and I, um, and I, and I was like, Hey, like, I want to

[00:05:20] get an electric guitar, but I feel like I should get like a Brown acoustic guitar, you know?

[00:05:26] And she was like, dude, you got to get the great one.

[00:05:30] And I was like, okay.

[00:05:31] And that was all I needed.

[00:05:33] And so I, and then I went on and the only one in the perfect shade was this like Mitchell,

[00:05:39] which I'm pretty sure is a guitar center store brand used electric guitar.

[00:05:45] And I still play it.

[00:05:45] I love this guitar.

[00:05:46] It's awesome.

[00:05:48] And so I got it and it was, it's been, it's been awesome.

[00:05:51] And it's something about picking it up and playing that color.

[00:05:54] They're just like, really?

[00:05:56] Do you feel that way?

[00:05:58] Do you have a guitar that makes you feel that way?

[00:06:00] Yeah.

[00:06:01] My Les Paul's not down here, but I have a Gibson Les Paul and I have a, that's a 94,

[00:06:06] 40th anniversary Fender Strat there.

[00:06:08] And I would say like nothing looks or sounds better than a Les Paul.

[00:06:13] My back doesn't like it the next day after I've played it, but man, nothing plays better

[00:06:18] than a Fender Strat.

[00:06:19] So it's like, what do you want?

[00:06:21] But I feel great with the 700 pound guitar.

[00:06:25] My Les Paul, because it's, it's awesome.

[00:06:27] So you've got this green guitar.

[00:06:28] You found the one that you wanted.

[00:06:30] They probably send you home with an amplifier too, I'm hoping.

[00:06:33] And then was it straight into Hot Cross Buns?

[00:06:36] How did you start becoming musical?

[00:06:39] Oh, yes.

[00:06:42] So I'm from Georgia and my favorite song is Freebird by Leonard Skinner.

[00:06:47] Okay.

[00:06:51] So obviously the first song I wanted to play was Freebird.

[00:06:55] It starts easier than it ends.

[00:06:58] And so, you know, I was like, this is going to be great.

[00:07:02] You know?

[00:07:03] And it's like, I was talking to one of my good friends, Eric, who's also a financial advisor

[00:07:11] in Nashville.

[00:07:13] And I was like, hey, like, I like have this guitar.

[00:07:17] I really want to learn how to play the guitar.

[00:07:19] And he was like, I also have always wanted to play the guitar, but have not done it.

[00:07:23] But like, I'm like of a full practice and like lots of stuff to do.

[00:07:27] And like, how do we find the time?

[00:07:29] Right.

[00:07:30] And so I was like, what if we played a game where like, let's trade videos of each other

[00:07:36] trying to learn how to play the song with Freebird.

[00:07:39] And so we were like, let's do it.

[00:07:42] And so we would like send these videos back and forth.

[00:07:44] And after a while, we were like, what if we divide in more people to do this?

[00:07:49] And so, you know, for me, like the guitar was kind of like a hobby that I picked up to

[00:07:58] try to overcome the sense of like, I guess, perfectionism is the way that I would say it.

[00:08:03] Like the rigorous standard that I put across all parts of my life.

[00:08:06] And so learning to play something and knowing we were not going to be great at it was essentially

[00:08:12] the game.

[00:08:12] We're like, we're going to, so we're like, okay, what if we invited all the people we

[00:08:18] know who have also always wanted to have a creative, do creative thing, but have never

[00:08:22] done it to trade videos doing whatever creative thing they always wanted to do online.

[00:08:26] So we started this Facebook group called the Freebird Challenge in 2019.

[00:08:31] And I got on Facebook Lives, which was like, to me at that time, the most horrifying thing

[00:08:38] I could possibly imagine because it's like goes to everyone that you know.

[00:08:42] Like people from elementary school are popping up like, oh my God.

[00:08:44] And I played Imagine, you know, on the green guitar.

[00:08:48] And I was like, who wants to be the Freebird Challenge?

[00:08:50] And it was like incredibly meaningful for several years.

[00:08:57] We traded videos, learning to do our own creative hobbies.

[00:09:01] And so that's how it started.

[00:09:05] And did the pandemic serve to make that accelerate faster than it might have since people were

[00:09:10] trying all sorts of new things during that time period?

[00:09:12] We were all at home.

[00:09:15] Yeah, yeah.

[00:09:16] You know?

[00:09:16] Okay.

[00:09:16] Well, you talk about doing something, you knowing that you're not going to be great at

[00:09:19] it, but time plus practice plus hard work leads to skill development.

[00:09:25] So I'm guessing we've seen your videos.

[00:09:27] You're not as terrible as you used to be, I'm guessing.

[00:09:29] So is the Freebird Challenge still going now that you're approaching competency?

[00:09:35] Yeah.

[00:09:35] I mean, I think I hope it goes on forever.

[00:09:37] And I am always inviting people into it.

[00:09:40] But now it's not a Facebook group.

[00:09:42] It's just an invitation to anyone who wants to pick up a creative hobby.

[00:09:46] And if they, you know, if they want to throw a hashtag Freebird Challenge on it, it's just

[00:09:49] an open invitation to say, do you have a creative thing you always wanted to do, but you've never

[00:09:53] done?

[00:09:54] Do you want to play a game where you can put up a totally imperfect version of you playing

[00:10:01] it?

[00:10:01] Doing it just for yourself is enough, but there is something really cool that happens

[00:10:06] when you're able to do it and share with others in any stage, whether it's just for you or

[00:10:10] whether you want to share with others.

[00:10:13] I just think it's really, to me, it's been like a big part of reclaiming a sense of like

[00:10:20] vitality in my life that I really needed.

[00:10:22] Doing something just for its own sake, because I think the first thing that happened when

[00:10:28] I picked up a guitar is like I applied the professional standard that I put to my professional

[00:10:38] life on the creative thing.

[00:10:42] It killed it.

[00:10:43] A new avenue for perfectionism.

[00:10:45] Totally.

[00:10:45] I was like, okay, I'm going to overcome my perfectionism with this thing.

[00:10:48] Perfectly.

[00:10:49] And then immediately I was like, and this is my first goal.

[00:10:54] And then milestone, and then I'm going to learn this, and by this date I'll have these

[00:10:58] three songs.

[00:10:59] And then I would just immediately not want to do it.

[00:11:02] It would just...

[00:11:03] And so I just...

[00:11:05] The process of learning guitar for me has been like this really difficult but important conversation

[00:11:12] with myself and also listening to self-talk along the way, learning to play the guitar.

[00:11:17] That's probably been the most valuable mirror for me because it's just like, I want to meet

[00:11:21] this goal but da-da-da-da-da.

[00:11:23] And professionally, I want to make sure I put things out there at this quality standard.

[00:11:28] But over here, how do I learn how to appreciate every part of the creative process?

[00:11:36] How do I learn how to see every step of this as like perfect and beautiful exactly how it

[00:11:45] is in just a snapshot at that moment of the learning?

[00:11:49] You know?

[00:11:50] And it's like not always easy.

[00:11:53] And there's like lots of...

[00:11:55] It's not a light switch.

[00:11:56] It's not like, okay, and I'm like, good.

[00:11:58] Now it's like always happening.

[00:12:00] Do you guys know what I was thinking?

[00:12:02] I did.

[00:12:04] Some.

[00:12:04] Some, yeah.

[00:12:05] I'm thinking like if...

[00:12:06] And maybe this is a wildly inappropriate question, but is imposter syndrome something

[00:12:10] that lives inside you?

[00:12:11] Because it seems like this could be a very effective antidote to...

[00:12:15] If you apply perfectionism in one area of your life, intentionally going out of your

[00:12:19] way to, I am putting this out there knowing that there's a standard that I'm not meeting.

[00:12:25] That was how I was hearing it.

[00:12:27] But maybe that's not how you meant it.

[00:12:28] I don't know.

[00:12:28] I don't know if...

[00:12:31] I like, for some reason, I don't know.

[00:12:34] The way I look at it, imposter syndrome makes me think that, let's see, that like there's

[00:12:41] something I'm trying.

[00:12:42] I don't feel like I'm able to be or something.

[00:12:46] And so I'm...

[00:12:47] I guess I just relate to it as like, I've always dealt with things in my life with like

[00:12:55] a high level of rigor, you know?

[00:12:57] Yeah.

[00:12:58] And like, I want to be proud of the things I put out in the world and the challenges I

[00:13:07] always had.

[00:13:08] I like...

[00:13:09] At the time that I started playing guitar, I was feeling really tired and I felt like...

[00:13:14] It's...

[00:13:15] And I was working relentlessly and I felt that I didn't have time to be creative.

[00:13:20] And also that, you know, I'm like, okay, this is something that I'm probably not going

[00:13:25] to be good at.

[00:13:25] And that was the limiting beliefs that got in the way.

[00:13:29] And so being able to do something and remove that needing to be good at something allowed

[00:13:39] me to access a sense of vitality that I wouldn't have been able to access if I had kept the exact

[00:13:49] same standard across all parts of my life.

[00:13:52] And so that taught me something.

[00:13:54] It, you know?

[00:13:56] Yeah.

[00:13:57] Yeah.

[00:13:57] I think it's interesting kind of hearing you say that.

[00:14:01] For me, so I'm a lifelong musician.

[00:14:04] I started taking piano lessons when I was six.

[00:14:06] I picked up guitar when I was in high school, kind of self-taught guitar.

[00:14:09] And as I mentioned before we started recording, like I'm like, I can't read really a lick of

[00:14:14] music.

[00:14:14] Like any six year old that's taking piano lessons can, can out read music, but I've got a great

[00:14:19] ear and I understand chords and, you know, and that's kind of how I play on piano.

[00:14:23] But it's weird because with music first, it's, it's always something that I wanted that was

[00:14:27] fun.

[00:14:28] It's fun for me.

[00:14:30] And like, I don't, I got to a point and now look, looking back at it's, it's in a weird

[00:14:35] spot because it's like, I'm kind of, I've got to a point where I'm embracing like good

[00:14:38] enough is good enough.

[00:14:39] Like I can't, I'm not much of a soloist at all from a guitar.

[00:14:43] So I hear like this, you know, some soloist on there, you know, on, you know, just shredding

[00:14:47] on a slash or something, just, you know, just shredding away on a solo.

[00:14:51] It's like, oh, that'd be so cool.

[00:14:52] That'd be so cool to be able to do.

[00:14:53] But like for me to put in that extra work to, to hone those skills of, of the, in my

[00:15:01] is my music.

[00:15:03] Like, I don't know.

[00:15:04] It's just like kind of where I am.

[00:15:05] I'm real comfortable where I am.

[00:15:06] And, um, so I, I'm constantly, I constantly have that battle with myself as a musician.

[00:15:12] It's like, cause I'm no longer pushing myself from music standpoint.

[00:15:15] I guess I've, as I've, as I've grown up and, you know, business owner and doing the things,

[00:15:19] I guess I'm, I'm itching that scratch just with my business of pushing it and being better

[00:15:25] and trying to improve on those sorts of things.

[00:15:28] And I've, I've really gone, I use music as just like a, well, I'll go and play the power

[00:15:33] chords that I've always played.

[00:15:34] I'll play to a click track or I'll play to whatever.

[00:15:37] And just because it's more of an unwinding it to me to even just like sit down, like,

[00:15:40] you know, I'm going to go learn the no rains or the, uh, the November rain solo.

[00:15:45] It's like, Oh, no, I'm not going, no, I'm not going to do that.

[00:15:49] I'm going to go play some blink one 82.

[00:15:52] Like, cause I know, so, you know, um, so, so, so, so that's interesting.

[00:15:57] So, and then I think that's the beauty of, of being a musician is like, there's so many

[00:16:02] different ways that it can intersect in your personality and kind of how you use the hobby

[00:16:07] and where it supports you.

[00:16:09] I, I, people ask me all the time and this is, this is your interview, not mine, but like

[00:16:13] if I always joke that like, they say, Oh, he's still playing a band.

[00:16:16] He's still playing a band in college, lead singer and all that.

[00:16:18] And, and it's like, no, I'm both, I'm both too young to be in a band and too old to be in

[00:16:23] a band.

[00:16:23] So like, you know, cause we have kids and, you know, high school and like, but I'm like

[00:16:27] fighting.

[00:16:28] I'm just turned 46.

[00:16:29] I'm like, tell people, I'm like, I'm about five years away from in like my second act

[00:16:32] of like being in a band because there'll be empty nesters.

[00:16:36] And you go to a bar, the band, you know, the bands are either in their twenties or in their

[00:16:39] fifties or older.

[00:16:40] So it's like, all right, I'm getting ready for that second, that second phase.

[00:16:43] But music's great.

[00:16:44] It's a great way to, it can plug in literally to wherever you are in life and feed different

[00:16:50] purposes.

[00:16:52] It totally, like you may have, you may think of something when you just said that it's

[00:16:57] like, so after the free bird challenge for a number of years, I got to a place where like

[00:17:06] learning guitar on YouTube by myself, I kind of like hit like a place where I wanted to

[00:17:12] start.

[00:17:13] And it was, I think it was after COVID and I wanted to play with people in real life.

[00:17:16] And I thought that would be really fun, but I also, my skill level was like still, you

[00:17:20] know, um, or where it was.

[00:17:24] And so, um, the school of rock has an adult performance program.

[00:17:32] Nice.

[00:17:33] Where they like put together bands, adults, they're working professionals.

[00:17:39] And so I like signed up for this and I like go in and there's these other guys.

[00:17:45] They're all like total, like, you know, full-time professionals.

[00:17:48] One's like a, you know, CFO of a hedge fund or something.

[00:17:51] The other guy.

[00:17:51] And I'm just like, I like when they're like, let's jam.

[00:17:55] I'd like love this.

[00:17:56] And so what I learned from, first of all, but that was cool because it was able, it

[00:18:01] was at that point, it kind of became both.

[00:18:03] It was like, let's play these songs that we love because we're all having fun and the

[00:18:09] point of this is fun.

[00:18:11] But then it was, it was different because playing in a band, I no longer, my like, you

[00:18:18] know, kind of being off, kind of being way off on the guitar solo.

[00:18:23] When I showed up to practice and I was not like prepared, infected other people.

[00:18:29] And so that was when like it became a both thing.

[00:18:34] Yes, it still needs to be for its own sake and for fun, but it's like, it also like brought,

[00:18:39] you know, a level of like really paying closer attention to what I was doing because like,

[00:18:45] I want to, you know, it's working with a team.

[00:18:47] You want to be a member of the team that is like moving everyone forward, that's ready.

[00:18:52] And so that was like totally a new experience for me and was really cool to be a part of.

[00:19:02] You, did you have any hints that you had latent musical ability?

[00:19:07] Some people grow up non-musical because they're simply not, there's nothing there.

[00:19:11] Other people discover later in life, oh, I'm wonderful.

[00:19:14] Did you, were your parents musical?

[00:19:16] Because you could have picked something, you might've had no ear, your fingers might not

[00:19:19] have been able to do it.

[00:19:20] It could have been a non-starter of an idea, but it's worked for you.

[00:19:23] I really, not, not really.

[00:19:26] I think that the reason that I chose it is because it seemed so outrageous to me.

[00:19:31] It seemed.

[00:19:32] Very left field.

[00:19:33] It seemed completely like I was looking for something that felt like that sense of wildness

[00:19:40] and freedom.

[00:19:40] And that was the most outrageous thing I could think of because I had never really played an

[00:19:46] instrument.

[00:19:47] And when you were first getting going, how did you find the time?

[00:19:51] You talked about being as busy as you were and the job that was in many ways draining.

[00:19:57] There's limits to how much you, how many hours you can push your fingertips on those strings.

[00:20:02] So how did you make it work?

[00:20:04] Totally.

[00:20:05] Totally.

[00:20:05] Well, I, um, I just, you know, I was in this game of the free bird challenge and, and it

[00:20:14] was a game.

[00:20:15] The social aspect.

[00:20:17] Yeah.

[00:20:17] It was like showing up for other people to play and, you know, these videos.

[00:20:23] And if you go on my Facebook page, you can go back and see from the very beginning, me

[00:20:28] playing, I would post these on my Facebook wall.

[00:20:32] And so it's like, you can go back.

[00:20:34] Check it out.

[00:20:35] Well, now that you've said it, we, we surely will.

[00:20:37] No, I'm just, you know, um, and, um, yeah, so I would, and I would think of a song that

[00:20:45] I would want to learn because maybe there was something in my life, you know, that I would

[00:20:50] want to, like, you know, I was thinking about and that would be enjoyable for me to play

[00:20:56] or there were songs from my childhood, a lot of all the other songs I wanted to learn

[00:20:59] how to play that really meant something to me.

[00:21:02] And it was just, yeah, it was showing up for myself, showing up for the game.

[00:21:10] And so my challenge to myself was to see what I could see if I could learn a song on

[00:21:15] like YouTube or, or practice a song and then just put a video of wherever I was practicing

[00:21:21] it that week in the group or online.

[00:21:26] Would you say wherever you were like skill wise or like?

[00:21:30] Wherever I was, skill wise.

[00:21:30] Okay.

[00:21:31] Okay.

[00:21:31] So it's not like you're going out on the patio or?

[00:21:33] No, totally.

[00:21:34] Like I tried to learn this, like the slide once.

[00:21:36] Cause I wanted to learn the, you know, a free bird.

[00:21:41] And I, and I, like, I got like, but it was just, you know, but it was like, hello.

[00:21:48] You're starting up today.

[00:21:50] And that's what kept me going.

[00:21:51] And so I don't think I was, I wasn't spending, I wasn't not, I wasn't spending a lot of time

[00:21:58] doing a lot of technical practice.

[00:22:01] I still aspire to be, to learn more about the fretboard and the elements of playing guitar.

[00:22:07] Really.

[00:22:08] It's always, and, and I, and I do work on it, but it's for me, it's always been about

[00:22:14] like, what, what like would be like really joyful for me to focus on today?

[00:22:19] And I'll like play that and do that.

[00:22:21] And that's what kept me going forward.

[00:22:22] How did you move on to the second and third guitar in the same color scheme?

[00:22:28] Let me think about that.

[00:22:30] How did I?

[00:22:31] Yeah.

[00:22:32] Cause your first was electric, right?

[00:22:33] The very first one was electric guitar.

[00:22:35] They're all electric.

[00:22:36] Oh, they're all electric.

[00:22:37] Okay.

[00:22:37] They're all electric.

[00:22:38] And you did get good advice from your friend because having known you several minutes now,

[00:22:41] I do not see you with a Brown acoustic guitar.

[00:22:43] Well, it's also, it's like, you know, there's something about being, I don't know.

[00:22:48] Yeah.

[00:22:49] There's something about, I think I, you know, I grew up in the South.

[00:22:52] I felt like, you know, sometimes there can be messages for women.

[00:22:56] I'm like, you know, be modest, you know, just kind of keep things buttoned up to a certain

[00:23:03] extent.

[00:23:04] And I wanted to, and the green electric was just, again, that sense of expression and

[00:23:08] freedom for me that I really needed.

[00:23:10] And that's why, you know, acoustic is beautiful, but it didn't give me that essence of freedom

[00:23:15] that I was looking for.

[00:23:16] So, so that's why I chose the, the first green electric guitar.

[00:23:22] And then the second one, I'm trying to remember, I think there, I can't remember exactly why

[00:23:29] I got the second one at this very moment, but my, I want to say it was an issue when I was

[00:23:36] playing a show with the cover band.

[00:23:40] But anyway, the second one that I got is the exact same color.

[00:23:45] It's just an EBH and it's got this really pretty red button on it.

[00:23:52] It's just a beautiful guitar.

[00:23:57] And like, I appreciate about it.

[00:24:00] Is it simple?

[00:24:01] It's grain.

[00:24:02] You know, it's like, that's what I appreciate about the Les Paul.

[00:24:05] It's like, I love that shape.

[00:24:07] It's so beautiful.

[00:24:09] I love those buttons, you know, and if there's not a lot of stuff on it, I just, I love, I

[00:24:14] love the way that looks.

[00:24:15] And I feel the same way about the green guitar.

[00:24:18] It's all green.

[00:24:19] The only thing on it is the button.

[00:24:21] I just love it.

[00:24:23] When we talked to Brooklyn about board games, I expected to be talking a lot about board

[00:24:27] games, but she's talked a lot about the design and the color and what made it beautiful

[00:24:31] and fun to look at, as well as the whole visual aspect of playing the game or playing the instrument.

[00:24:38] So that's interesting.

[00:24:39] Yeah.

[00:24:40] And how it makes me feel when I hold it, you know?

[00:24:43] What did your coworkers make of the Freebird Challenge and, hey, Anne's trying this wildly

[00:24:49] new and different thing?

[00:24:51] Or did that not come to their attention somehow?

[00:24:54] Let's see.

[00:24:55] My coworkers, I think, you know, when I was at the time, I was still, when I started the

[00:24:59] Freebird Challenge, I was still at the big firm.

[00:25:01] The big firm, yeah.

[00:25:02] And I don't remember really people commenting on it at all.

[00:25:08] But what was interesting is like, you know, that I started it with another financial advisor.

[00:25:13] And what was cool is that actually a lot of the people in the group were finance people.

[00:25:18] We had a lot of financial advisors that joined the group, a lot of, you know, some finance

[00:25:22] thought leaders, and we were all just like playing and having a good time.

[00:25:26] And so I think it was really fun because it started this whole conversation among, I know,

[00:25:35] we could call it people in finance, people who are in fields of rigor, you know, where

[00:25:41] we're really, you know, we are detail-oriented.

[00:25:46] And it is valuable to have an outlet.

[00:25:50] And so it was really fun because not only did other people that in my field join it,

[00:25:59] but we had, you know, we started having these really fun conversations about like the time when

[00:26:04] they played something or what they always wanted to play.

[00:26:07] And those are my favorite things to talk about.

[00:26:09] And fortunately in our work, we also get to talk to people about their dreams.

[00:26:12] And that's like incredibly rewarding and soulful and beautiful.

[00:26:16] At the very top, you mentioned how the way that we convey information to the clients can be

[00:26:23] very dry and that you are wanting to express creativity.

[00:26:27] Have you been able to, you started the guitar thing being intentionally diversionary, but have

[00:26:31] you been able to meld the two together to use your creativity to communicate concepts and data?

[00:26:39] Data.

[00:26:39] Yeah.

[00:26:42] I have, I have started a new experiment.

[00:26:46] And so for 15 years, I've been in a creative writing community and I was, and every year I go on a

[00:26:57] writing retreat.

[00:26:58] Um, and, um, I usually sit down and I've written like essays and short stories and, um, and other

[00:27:07] things.

[00:27:07] And I try to get clear on whatever it is I'm trying to convey.

[00:27:12] And, um, around the same time we were doing a, um, I go on this writing retreat and I'm also,

[00:27:21] we're also playing a show with our cover band that's coming up.

[00:27:25] And we're playing like enter Sandman.

[00:27:27] We're playing like some songs that like, I really needed, like, I really needed to, I think we're

[00:27:31] playing November rain.

[00:27:32] Like we're playing some songs.

[00:27:33] Like I, I needed to practice.

[00:27:35] And so I brought my guitar with me to the writing retreat because I was like, I need to figure out

[00:27:38] how to enter Sandman.

[00:27:40] And I also need to write something.

[00:27:42] You know what I was like?

[00:27:43] And so I'm like.

[00:27:46] Two things on the list.

[00:27:48] We'll talk, which is like so fun.

[00:27:49] They were so fun to play.

[00:27:50] Oh, fun to play.

[00:27:51] But so, um, so I'm sitting down to write like an essay, you know, on like, you know, finance

[00:28:00] and, um, and how it's, can be scary to engage with finance.

[00:28:04] And I started writing this essay and I started feeling like tired.

[00:28:06] I was like, no, I don't know.

[00:28:08] And I was like, you know, it would be like fun.

[00:28:10] It would be fun to see if I could write like a little song about this, you know?

[00:28:15] And so I kind of looked like giggling to myself.

[00:28:18] I was like, oh my gosh, like what, I could write a little song about like a financial

[00:28:21] ostrich and how our ostrich is.

[00:28:23] And, you know, I'm like laughing.

[00:28:25] And I just was, I just was, I just had a great time doing it.

[00:28:30] And I thought it was fun and I thought it could be useful.

[00:28:34] I don't know what the, I just, and I just played it to my class.

[00:28:39] And so, um, your class of the other people at the retreat who are not necessarily financial

[00:28:45] types at all.

[00:28:46] No, no, they're all, you know, right.

[00:28:49] All types, but creative, you know, creative people were all there writing their stories.

[00:28:53] And, and so I wrote one the first day and then I was like, you know, it'd be cool.

[00:28:56] It's like an eight day writing retreat.

[00:28:58] And I was like, I'm going to see if I can write one song a day, you know?

[00:29:02] And so I wrote one the first day and then I did the next day.

[00:29:04] And then I wrote a song every day.

[00:29:06] And that was the first time I'd ever written music.

[00:29:11] Um, and then I was like, this is, this is fun.

[00:29:20] And I called my guitar teacher and I told, I was telling her about it.

[00:29:24] And she was like, you should do a show.

[00:29:26] And I was like, no, my God.

[00:29:27] Like, like, so anyway, I did end up doing a show in, um, in August of that year, which

[00:29:35] was the first time I ever put a band together.

[00:29:36] It was the whole thing.

[00:29:37] It's always, everything has been something that seems outrageous to do.

[00:29:41] And then, um, the next year I went back and I played the same game with myself, um, this

[00:29:46] last year.

[00:29:46] And I said, okay, what if I could write a song a day?

[00:29:48] And I did the same thing.

[00:29:49] And so then I had more songs and I was like, oh, this is fun.

[00:29:54] So yeah.

[00:29:54] So I got started on this little experiment to see how can we, yeah.

[00:30:00] How can we make this more engaging?

[00:30:03] Yeah.

[00:30:04] All right.

[00:30:05] All right.

[00:30:06] Have there been lessons that you've been able to draw and apply from your pursuit of

[00:30:12] the, the learning of the music and the electric guitar that have been applicable to the day

[00:30:17] job work with the clients?

[00:30:19] Totally.

[00:30:20] Totally.

[00:30:20] I mean, I think for a long time, I felt like, um, the answer to dealing with, uh, rigor of,

[00:30:35] you know, I, I, I kind of looked at things like, okay, there's the rigor of work and then

[00:30:41] there's carving out time over here in order to do a creative thing.

[00:30:45] And that's extra time.

[00:30:46] Separate.

[00:30:46] And separate.

[00:30:47] And how do I find it?

[00:30:49] There is no time.

[00:30:50] Right.

[00:30:51] And sometimes it's like, if I have free time, you know, it's like free, free time.

[00:30:53] It's like, what am I supposed to, what do I even do with myself to chill out?

[00:30:55] You know what I mean?

[00:30:55] It's like, so, so it's like, where do I find it?

[00:30:59] It's like carving out.

[00:31:00] What I guess what I really didn't see at the beginning was that actually having this

[00:31:07] time, like unlocks and infuses everything with more vitality and gives me more energy.

[00:31:17] And so that's what I noticed.

[00:31:20] And so sometimes like when we're working with clients and we're talking to them about their

[00:31:23] goals and sometimes our clients like working hard, they're doing a lot and they have

[00:31:30] goals they want to accomplish.

[00:31:31] And sometimes when I sense, and we're talking about planning and goals and there's that same

[00:31:37] sense of, you know, heaviness, sometimes what we do is we look for that creative goal.

[00:31:48] We look for that goal that seems to be over here that has that sense of wildness in it,

[00:31:54] because sometimes focusing on that as well can fuse everything with that sense of vitality.

[00:32:04] So that's what I've been trying to.

[00:32:06] Yeah.

[00:32:06] Yeah.

[00:32:06] That makes sense.

[00:32:08] I've noticed just as being a musician, that there are times I found that if I'm like struggling

[00:32:14] over a decision, like a multi-day struggle over like a big decision I need to make or whatever,

[00:32:19] and I'm just not feeling right or whatever, or sometimes just if I'm just feeling not myself,

[00:32:25] usually if I think like, when's the last time I, like when's the last time I played?

[00:32:29] Like when's the last time I went downstairs and just like played?

[00:32:32] And usually it's, oh, it's been a while.

[00:32:34] Yeah.

[00:32:35] And just kind of, it's like, because it's such a creative pursuit and it activates that right

[00:32:40] part of your brain, just getting down, getting down here and just even just 20 minutes, just

[00:32:46] something to just focus on that's purely creative.

[00:32:50] Yeah.

[00:32:50] Almost like gets me in a better spot to make, it's like, is that like part of your battery?

[00:32:56] Like if you have like multi-cells in your battery, it's like that part of your battery is like

[00:32:59] drained and you have to like charge that piece up and it just helps the rest of my mind and body

[00:33:05] and where I'm making decisions elsewhere just operate a little more efficiently.

[00:33:10] Yeah.

[00:33:11] You're no longer at the big firm.

[00:33:13] You've started your own place, right?

[00:33:15] So I'm guessing that would have gone very differently if you didn't have your creative outlets to

[00:33:18] help fuel that transition.

[00:33:21] Totally.

[00:33:21] I mean, that time when I went to, you know, when I, when I drove North, um, that was the

[00:33:28] other insight that I had is, you know, I wanted to infuse my life with a sense of freedom.

[00:33:33] And so part of that, of course, was the green guitar.

[00:33:36] And part of that was, was, you know, founding my boutique wealth advisory that, you know,

[00:33:43] and I wanted to keep that sense of freedom at the center of what I was doing.

[00:33:46] And so they're all, you know, bundled.

[00:33:51] They're all, they're all, yeah, it's all, it's all one really.

[00:33:55] Yeah.

[00:33:55] Yeah.

[00:33:56] You've been doing this coming up on five years.

[00:33:59] Are there any special memories that you've already established that you're going to treasure

[00:34:03] for the rest of your days that you look back on, or are there too many to count?

[00:34:06] So I recently did a 10 X talk and the topic was how to make finance beautiful.

[00:34:11] And so when I was invited to do this, I had a short timeline to think about what I wanted

[00:34:15] to say.

[00:34:16] And I was thinking one way I could do this would be to bring the financial rock songs into

[00:34:23] it.

[00:34:23] And of course, it's like the first time I played, like I played with the school of rock

[00:34:28] band, now our cover band in like open mics.

[00:34:31] Okay.

[00:34:32] And we like play, you know, like sometimes we're great.

[00:34:35] Sometimes I'm just, I'm going to, I just have to go back to a detail here that I feel

[00:34:39] like is important to mention.

[00:34:40] The name of our cover band is the 17 pound goose.

[00:34:44] Okay.

[00:34:45] And the reason for that is because, you know, it's like, it's, it's kind of an idea of the

[00:34:50] free bird idea.

[00:34:50] It's like, will the, we don't know.

[00:34:52] It's like the goose could fly.

[00:34:54] The goose could not play.

[00:34:54] You know, it's like, we don't know what's going to happen, but it's, but the fun part

[00:34:57] is trying.

[00:34:59] So we always play with that sense of just like being out there to have a good time.

[00:35:05] So fast forward to the TEDx stage, I'm in essentially like a stadium and there's like a Britney

[00:35:14] Spears microphone on me and there's like my orange amp and my green guitar.

[00:35:22] And they're like, okay.

[00:35:24] Go.

[00:35:25] I'm out of here.

[00:35:25] Dance.

[00:35:26] Monkey dance.

[00:35:27] Yeah.

[00:35:29] And I, you know, and it was, I felt like it was including, you know, financial rock,

[00:35:35] thin rock.

[00:35:36] Into that, I, my hope was to, you know, convey that sense of playfulness and that we can make

[00:35:44] finance more engaging using creative tools.

[00:35:46] And, and walking out on stage and playing for an audience that big with no band, just

[00:35:54] me, clean, praying.

[00:35:56] I can't remember the chords.

[00:35:59] Like that really like, that really, that was memorable.

[00:36:04] Yeah.

[00:36:05] Yeah.

[00:36:07] And, and as you mentioned, green guitar, orange amp, which I'm assuming you had to hunt that

[00:36:12] down as well.

[00:36:13] I can't help but notice that behind you, that's the same color palette that we're seeing on

[00:36:17] your wall.

[00:36:19] I, that's, it's true.

[00:36:20] You know, I, I always use an orange amp.

[00:36:23] Can you guess why?

[00:36:26] Fun.

[00:36:26] I'm guessing fun and whimsy and it's beautiful.

[00:36:28] Well, I can go into, I can go to the history of orange amps and.

[00:36:31] Well, no, what, which is, I just like, I really liked the color of those amps.

[00:36:36] You know, I think the color of orange, it's beautiful and it, and you know what it looks

[00:36:39] really beautiful with the exact color grade.

[00:36:43] Brand.

[00:36:43] Yeah.

[00:36:45] And, and so, and so that's what I mean.

[00:36:47] It's like, I always, I generally play with that because I just, I just like it.

[00:36:50] It just makes me happy.

[00:36:53] Orange is not just the color.

[00:36:55] It is the brand name of the amp.

[00:36:58] Yes.

[00:36:58] The same way you have a Marshall amp or a Fender amp.

[00:37:01] Oh.

[00:37:01] Or a Mesa Boogie amp.

[00:37:02] It is orange.

[00:37:03] Alleviated.

[00:37:04] Okay.

[00:37:04] Thank you for clearing that up.

[00:37:05] But it is orange.

[00:37:05] I was clueless on that.

[00:37:06] It is orange and it's also a brand.

[00:37:08] Yes.

[00:37:08] Okay.

[00:37:09] So I am a musician, but I haven't purchased an instruments or an amp since 1997 because

[00:37:14] I found ones that I like and I work with it and I've thought about getting more, but

[00:37:18] they're more expensive than they used to be.

[00:37:19] You can't get a proper bass for a hundred bucks from mowing lawns anymore.

[00:37:22] So I work with what I've got, but yeah, orange apparently.

[00:37:25] It is.

[00:37:25] Now I know.

[00:37:26] They're fantastic amps.

[00:37:27] Very cool sound.

[00:37:28] Very cool.

[00:37:28] English, like Brit sound.

[00:37:30] Yeah.

[00:37:30] Okay.

[00:37:31] Okay.

[00:37:31] Huh.

[00:37:32] All right.

[00:37:32] All right.

[00:37:33] So you've done this with other people, lots of people.

[00:37:37] Has there been any potential crossover?

[00:37:39] Have you been able to introduce any music people into the boutique finance world?

[00:37:43] Are there finance people that you get to do music with or does it remain separate as

[00:37:47] far as the people in your life go?

[00:37:50] Well, I, let's see, I try to do my best to include people in the different parts of my

[00:38:00] life.

[00:38:00] Um, I would say, so the, our cover band, the 17 pound goose, we still play together.

[00:38:09] We're no longer, you know, formally with the school of rock program, but we do still

[00:38:13] get together every week in practice and we still go out and play shows and open mics.

[00:38:20] And so, um, that's a lot of fun.

[00:38:23] And so I've had, you know, clients come to those shows.

[00:38:26] It was, I think, um, my first show, I had a client come and I was like, oh my God, I was

[00:38:32] like, she was so cool about it.

[00:38:36] And, and, and I was just, I was very grateful because I was like, oh my gosh, you know, but,

[00:38:40] um, but just getting to, yeah, enjoy all parts of the process, learning process.

[00:38:47] And then with the, um, financial rock songs, I played those at open mics and, um, I have

[00:38:55] played them now at financial conferences and, um, and that has been really cool and wild at

[00:39:03] the same time.

[00:39:03] Um, and in financial presentations, um, when I do financial presentations now, it's, it's

[00:39:11] really fun to include a financial song.

[00:39:13] It just brings the element in.

[00:39:15] Um, so, um, and then right now I have the, the songs that I wrote at the writing retreat

[00:39:22] and putting out one song every few weeks, um, with some reflection questions around financial

[00:39:30] topics.

[00:39:31] So I'm bringing the world together in that, you know, bringing the community into all

[00:39:40] parts of the music and then also hopefully creating a greater sense of playfulness and

[00:39:46] engagement with financial education as well.

[00:39:50] Yeah.

[00:39:51] Yeah.

[00:39:51] I can't help but notice when you talk with your hands that your nails are painted beautifully

[00:39:55] with vibrant colors.

[00:39:57] How did you not end up doing art?

[00:39:59] It just seems, I mean, I know you chose music cause it's out there, but I keep on smashing

[00:40:03] the symbol, but do you paint other than your nails?

[00:40:07] Do I paint?

[00:40:08] Um, not yet.

[00:40:10] I don't paint.

[00:40:11] I have painted.

[00:40:13] Um, it's not my number one thing.

[00:40:14] I do draw, um, you know, I have markers at my desk and, um, I have a sketch pad, but

[00:40:24] normally I, um, you couldn't, you couldn't just use a cup to hold your markers.

[00:40:28] It had to be a tetrahedron.

[00:40:30] It's beautiful.

[00:40:31] It's very dark.

[00:40:31] It's very dark side of the moon.

[00:40:32] It's a prism in a, you know, I love that.

[00:40:34] Oh, the colors.

[00:40:35] Yeah.

[00:40:35] It was for succulents.

[00:40:36] Yeah.

[00:40:36] You put a succulent in those and then after, you know, and then I was just like, oh,

[00:40:40] it's, it's pretty because it holds them up so I can grab an easterly.

[00:40:43] Um, not a green thumb then.

[00:40:45] Okay.

[00:40:46] Well, no, I, and I used to do spend a lot of time gardening and, and, um, and, and that's

[00:40:52] like a, also a big source of inspiration, but I would say, um, I think it was being in,

[00:41:00] um, a very technical environment for a really long time.

[00:41:03] Um, and, you know, mostly I was, um, you know, um, information was being conveyed in a certain

[00:41:14] way.

[00:41:14] We're all wearing, you know, black, blue and gray suits.

[00:41:19] And I felt that after I wanted to shift gears and create something that could have a different

[00:41:31] feeling, that sense of security and freedom at the core.

[00:41:35] I think that's when color came into my life, you know, um, a little bit like the wizard of

[00:41:41] Oz, you know, I, and I started thinking about color in a more intentional way.

[00:41:46] Um, and so I, yeah, back, I, you know, you probably wouldn't have seen these nails 15

[00:41:53] years ago, but I think that everything, I don't know.

[00:41:57] I think that creating environments to, to make things approachable and beautiful is, is fun.

[00:42:01] It's also an honor.

[00:42:02] My wife is highly driven by color and it's, it's, it's become established that, Hey, look,

[00:42:07] pal, if you're going to show me a spreadsheet, it needs to not just be Excel green.

[00:42:10] There has to be multiple colors.

[00:42:12] And I've, I've learned that, yeah, this can be an effective way to separate information.

[00:42:16] And, and now all our rebalancing charts are multicolored and they're pretty.

[00:42:20] It's so important.

[00:42:22] The asset allocation, like each asset class having a color that represents like what's

[00:42:27] happening.

[00:42:27] Like, does it make sense to have certain asset classes be like dark red, you know, some of

[00:42:34] them, you know, this growth, what are we doing here?

[00:42:37] You know?

[00:42:41] Yeah.

[00:42:41] Yeah.

[00:42:42] All right.

[00:42:42] Well, if somebody wanted to get into electric guitars and it sounds like, is it just go down

[00:42:48] to the local guitar center and, and find a color that strikes you or what's, what would

[00:42:52] you having done it?

[00:42:54] How would you do it differently?

[00:42:55] Or what, what, what about your path?

[00:42:57] Would you recommend to somebody else?

[00:42:59] I would invite them to think about, is there a creative thing you've always wanted to do,

[00:43:09] but you've never done it?

[00:43:12] Or if you've said something like, I would totally do this, but I don't feel like I have the

[00:43:16] time to do it.

[00:43:18] Or like my fourth grade, you know, art teacher or something said, you're not good at this,

[00:43:24] but I've always wanted to like singing or like art or painting or something.

[00:43:27] Is there something you've always wanted to do?

[00:43:29] Or you're like, oh, when I have the time, someday I'll do that.

[00:43:34] Think about what is that thing.

[00:43:37] And is there like one step you could take to do a creative experiment just to see what that

[00:43:47] sense of freedom feels like for you?

[00:43:50] Like, and you know, with the free bird challenge, I, I would always say like, and if you don't

[00:43:56] know what that is, see what it feels like to just holler free bird.

[00:44:03] Sure.

[00:44:04] Sure.

[00:44:05] Yeah.

[00:44:05] Don't do it at a classical concert though.

[00:44:08] It's frowned upon.

[00:44:09] I know.

[00:44:11] It sounds like there are many, many ways that you've put yourself out there.

[00:44:15] If somebody wanted to find you and your work with the music online, what would be the best

[00:44:20] plays?

[00:44:20] The TEDx talk, the Facebook challenge, where, where would you direct them if they wanted to

[00:44:24] hear and see what you've done and where you're at now?

[00:44:28] Totally.

[00:44:29] So I would say go to finrockrocks.com.

[00:44:36] That's where I am putting out all the financial rock songs, the finrock songs that I've written

[00:44:44] so far, along with reflection questions.

[00:44:47] And also where I'm sharing news and ideas around this finrock movement or ways we can make

[00:44:56] finance beautiful.

[00:44:57] All of us as financial professionals.

[00:44:59] Like I think as I talk to, it's so fun to see how different people are making finance

[00:45:04] beautiful.

[00:45:05] So I would say, I would love to connect and I would love to, and so I would love for you

[00:45:11] to tune in and be a part of this overall movement.

[00:45:16] So if you would go to finrockrocks.com, put in your email, that's the best way to do it.

[00:45:21] Second to last question from me.

[00:45:23] One of the things I enjoy about these podcast series that we do is I get to ask questions

[00:45:27] about things that I'm totally ignorant of and I'm the sort of person that prides myself

[00:45:31] in knowing things.

[00:45:32] And so it takes effort for me to put myself out there and say, I don't know a thing.

[00:45:36] Is 17 pounds big or not big for a goose?

[00:45:38] Because the Canada geese that we have around here look to be about 40.

[00:45:41] And that right?

[00:45:42] Yeah.

[00:45:43] Well, I don't know.

[00:45:44] I keep my distance because they're nasty.

[00:45:46] But so 17 pound goose.

[00:45:47] Scale?

[00:45:48] 17 pound goose.

[00:45:49] My understanding is a 17 pound goose is a larger bird.

[00:45:55] And the reason that I...

[00:45:56] It's a hefty critter.

[00:45:57] Okay.

[00:45:57] It's a hefty...

[00:45:58] Yes.

[00:45:58] And the reason that I think that is because I was on a conference call with somebody who

[00:46:04] was preparing a dinner party and he was telling us that he had made a 17 pound goose and he

[00:46:10] was explaining to us how that was a really, you know, sizeful bird to cook.

[00:46:17] And I just remember thinking, like envisioning that in my mind and also like smiling and just

[00:46:22] thinking, you know, it's like the idea of being a free bird and flying, but also at any

[00:46:29] level, just like taking off no matter where you are and having, you know, will we fly?

[00:46:36] I don't know.

[00:46:37] It's 17 pound geese always fly.

[00:46:39] I don't know.

[00:46:39] But we took that as a metaphor and thought, could we, yeah, just make a game out of seeing

[00:46:47] how can we infuse this sense of play into what we're doing?

[00:46:52] At first, I wondered if it was a Dickens reference to the end of the Christmas carol,

[00:46:55] go down and buy the goose in the window, deliver it to the Cratchit family.

[00:46:57] But apparently not.

[00:47:01] I love that.

[00:47:02] Maybe, maybe.

[00:47:03] Okay.

[00:47:03] And then the final question from me, where would people go to find out about your work

[00:47:07] that you're doing professionally and the way that you're expressing your creativity on behalf

[00:47:11] of clients?

[00:47:12] Yes.

[00:47:13] I would still recommend going to thinrockrocks.com for that.

[00:47:16] Same place.

[00:47:17] Okay.

[00:47:17] No, and people can, of course, look up Cratchit and the work that we're doing.

[00:47:24] And I would say that my intention is to share all different ways of making finance beautiful

[00:47:30] through that medium.

[00:47:31] And so I think that would be the perfect place to start.

[00:47:34] Okay.

[00:47:35] With the work.

[00:47:35] Excellent.

[00:47:36] Thank you.

[00:47:36] Thank you so much.

[00:47:37] Do you take fan submissions there?

[00:47:39] Like, if I were to write a song about the importance of rebalance to the tune of Smells Like Teen Spirit,

[00:47:47] like, you know, Smells Like Rebalance or something.

[00:47:50] Is that something I could do and submit to the Thinrock Rock site?

[00:47:53] You put it out there yourself.

[00:47:55] Just put it out there yourself.

[00:47:56] That's hurry.

[00:47:57] Okay.

[00:47:57] Yeah.

[00:47:58] I've also learned that it's a whole different conversation.

[00:48:04] But you have to be thoughtful about using someone else's, like, chords and changing the words.

[00:48:12] Oh, sure.

[00:48:13] Sure.

[00:48:13] Because that is –

[00:48:14] So I would just – that would be the first thing I would say.

[00:48:17] You're not weird, Al.

[00:48:18] Not yet.

[00:48:19] Don't monetize for one.

[00:48:21] I would say ask the artist's permission.

[00:48:23] Yeah.

[00:48:24] If you can do it or write your own thing.

[00:48:26] That's what I would say.

[00:48:28] Yes.

[00:48:29] I think Beethoven is in the public domain.

[00:48:31] But, yeah, I appreciate the CYA with the licensing and, you know, the copyright stuff.

[00:48:35] Yeah.

[00:48:36] Yeah, yeah.

[00:48:36] And I bring it up because that, you know, I had – that was one of my initial instincts, too.

[00:48:40] And, you know, obviously, you know, it's – that artist's integrity is really important.

[00:48:46] And it's – there's lots to know about that.

[00:48:49] And in terms of, like, Feyrock and growing it as a movement, like, absolutely.

[00:48:53] Absolutely.

[00:48:54] And, like, I would love to stay connected in terms of Thin Rock Rock and expanding.

[00:48:59] I have so many ideas.

[00:49:00] So many ideas.

[00:49:01] My right brain is just lit up like a Christmas tree right now.

[00:49:04] So.

[00:49:05] All right.

[00:49:06] Well, I'm afraid I have to shut you down because it's time.

[00:49:08] Okay.

[00:49:08] It is time.

[00:49:09] We've hit the – we've hit the limit.

[00:49:10] So.

[00:49:11] And thanks so much for coming on.

[00:49:12] This is really interesting.

[00:49:14] We can't – I know I speak for myself, but Joshua and I will definitely check out Thin Rock Rocks

[00:49:19] and encourage everyone else to check it out as well.

[00:49:21] And we look forward to hearing more from you and your music in the very near future.

[00:49:28] Thanks so much, Amy.

[00:49:29] Pleasure.

[00:49:30] Thank you.

[00:49:33] Unexpected Hobbies of Financial Advisors is brought to you by Fiduciary CFO,

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[00:49:49] and should not be construed as legal, tax, financial, or investment advice.

[00:49:54] You should know better than to take any of this content seriously.

[00:50:01] Thanks for being a fan of the show.

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[00:50:09] Go to UnexpectedHobbies.com slash nominate

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